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Old 07-23-2019, 09:58 PM   #1
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2020 Lincoln Aviator Hybrid

Holy cow! This thing looks unbelievable. Rear-wheel drive, 450 HP and 600 ft.lb of torque- are you kidding me? If that wasn't enough you can put it into "Pure EV Mode" and have it run all electric. If the batteries start pooping out, well not to worry- it has a 3.0 EcoBoost motor. If price were no object....

The 2020 Explorer Hybrid is somewhat similar, however doesn't have the EcoBoost motor with the Hybrid and reviews are not as exuberant.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...iator_Apr1.pdf
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...r-photos-info/
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Old 07-24-2019, 05:52 AM   #2
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Wow, impressive set up. Ram is offering an electric motor hybrid also but it reminds me of the saying "more complicated the plumbing, easier to clog it up".
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Old 07-24-2019, 08:11 AM   #3
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Amen Jim I prefer the old adage KISS
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Old 07-24-2019, 01:34 PM   #4
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Hybrid systems

The Ram system is a small "mild hybrid" configuration, which provides some assistance to both performance and fuel economy. This Ford system is a parallel hybrid with much more power, which will provide more performance improvement and has enough battery capacity to drive on electricity alone for a limited distance. The two systems are similar in complexity, but different in scale.

I don't think anyone will be towing very far, if at all, in electric-only mode. It must have enough electric motor power for somewhat acceptable performance without the engine when not towing, but my guess is that when it is hitched to a couple of tons of trailer the engine will start up as soon as the accelerator pedal is pushed.

Reliability issues seem rare with electric drive components, whether in battery-electric or hybrid vehicles, although there have been some issues with some lithium batteries.
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Old 07-24-2019, 01:39 PM   #5
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Towing capacity

The Aviator specs show that the towing package is not available with the hybrid (or at least that it doesn't affect the trailer weight limit), but the base capacity is sufficient for any conventional Escape. GCWR without the package may be restrictive for some owners with 21' trailers and significant passenger and cargo load.

I find it interesting that, at least with the towing package, a weight-distributing hitch is not required even at the full rated trailer weight.
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:00 PM   #6
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Seems to me that a hybrid is the worst of both worlds. You retain the mechanics of a conventional engine and add the lousy range and inconvenience of charging an electric.
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Old 07-25-2019, 12:48 AM   #7
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Seems to me that a hybrid is the worst of both worlds. You retain the mechanics of a conventional engine and add the lousy range and inconvenience of charging an electric.
But in fact you get the range of the conventional vehicle (plus a contribution from the energy in the battery, in the case of a plug-in hybrid like this, if you want), and you don't have to charge it if you don't want to. Even if you never plug it in, the hybrid system helps the efficiency of the gas engine (by avoiding idling, smoothing out power demand, and recovering energy in braking). If you do plug it in, you replace some fuel consumption with electrical consumption (which is cheaper and avoids gas station visits).

The ideal application for a plug-in hybrid is someone who routinely takes short trips which can be covered mostly by charging at home (where it is parked anyway), but needs long range for some trips... so if you mostly have a short commute or shopping but tow a trailer on trips, this is a good match.

The plug-in hybrid is the most complex drivetrain design, which certainly does incur a cost. If you only need the range of a pure battery-electric, and the high price is worth it to you, the battery-electric vehicle is a simpler choice. If your driving is all long highway trips, an engine makes sense for range and a hybrid system has little benefit.

Yes, the large battery of a relatively long-range EV is more expensive than an entire engine and transmission.

A plug-in hybrid could have one nice feature for towing: regenerative braking (using the electric motor as a generator driven by the wheels) could smoothly control mountain grade descent speed instead of engine braking, and charge the battery.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:08 PM   #8
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I'm still waiting for a plug-in hybrid setup that allows me to tow, long enough electric daily range and ability to use the battery for other use while travelling (to power RV?)

That new Explorer hybrid is getting closer though...
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:34 PM   #9
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Every Lincoln made since like the mid 70s looks like it was hit with the ugly stick. The MTV Cribz school of design.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:56 PM   #10
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I'm still waiting for a plug-in hybrid setup that allows me to tow, long enough electric daily range and ability to use the battery for other use while travelling (to power RV?)

That new Explorer hybrid is getting closer though...
I think it is unlikely that a vehicle of this style will have the ideal RV feature of a 30-amp 120 volt (or 50 amp 240 volt) outlet. It is technically feasible; it just wouldn't be used by enough buyers of a "luxury" SUV to make it to production. A high-output inverter like this is more likely in a pickup truck intended for work.
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Old 07-26-2019, 01:12 PM   #11
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even the massive battery in a Tesla is at most 90KWH, at 30A 120, or 3.6KW, you'd be burning through that pretty fast, and eating into your fuel supply to get home.

the hybrid thing is good for a light vehicle in urban stop and go, where the regenerative braking recharges the battery, and the battery provides an acceleration boost to the underpowered high efficiency motor, but for towing, you need sustained high torque, and sorry, but hybrids just don't cut it for that.
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Old 07-26-2019, 02:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I think it is unlikely that a vehicle of this style will have the ideal RV feature of a 30-amp 120 volt (or 50 amp 240 volt) outlet. It is technically feasible; it just wouldn't be used by enough buyers of a "luxury" SUV to make it to production. A high-output inverter like this is more likely in a pickup truck intended for work.
I wouldn't mind having this in a pickup truck. Park the trailer at the site without hookups, drive around during the day, come back with a fully charged battery, then use it overnight in the RV.

I guess I'm still dreaming...
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Old 07-26-2019, 07:59 PM   #13
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even the massive battery in a Tesla is at most 90KWH, at 30A 120, or 3.6KW, you'd be burning through that pretty fast, and eating into your fuel supply to get home.
You probably wouldn't want to run an air conditioner, but the large loads which are normally supported by an inverter (mostly microwave oven or other cooking appliance) would be much better handled by even a plug-in hybrid (typically 12 to 26 kWh, but the Aviator is rumoured to be larger to get the expected 50 km or 30 mile range with an SUV) than by the pair of "golf cart" batteries that are usually used. Even a hybrid like this could handle an hour of 1 kilowatt loads per day for a week on half of the vehicle's battery capacity.

Even if someone ran an air conditioner during the day, having the tow vehicle engine kick on for a few minutes per hour would be better than running a little noisemaker (portable generator set). Fuel consumption would be trivial compared to the vehicle tank... after all, people don't carry much fuel for their gasoline generators.

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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
the hybrid thing is good for a light vehicle in urban stop and go, where the regenerative braking recharges the battery, and the battery provides an acceleration boost to the underpowered high efficiency motor, but for towing, you need sustained high torque, and sorry, but hybrids just don't cut it for that.
I agree that highway use - especially towing - is not the ideal hybrid use case, and the hybrid system would do very little most of the time while towing, but it would be good for descending grades. This is not a configuration with an underpowered engine; it has the same engine as the non-hybrid.
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Old 07-26-2019, 08:12 PM   #14
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I wouldn't mind having this in a pickup truck. Park the trailer at the site without hookups, drive around during the day, come back with a fully charged battery, then use it overnight in the RV.
That's what I was thinking.

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I guess I'm still dreaming...
Not many people are going to hack into the high voltage system of their new $80K SUV, but at least a few people have added substantial inverters to their old Priuses for this sort of purpose. The dream is (at least sort of) attainable.
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Old 07-26-2019, 08:15 PM   #15
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I presume you have to take it in every six months / X,000 miles for the regular service on the gas engine?
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Old 07-26-2019, 08:42 PM   #16
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I presume you have to take it in every six months / X,000 miles for the regular service on the gas engine?
Yes, although modern vehicles have use-based service calculations, and tell you when they are due for oil and filter service instead of just using the distance driven; harder use means service sooner, but light use means service well past the usual fixed distance. If you are driving largely on battery power (so the engine is not running most of the time), it's not going to require service for many thousands of kilometres.

The transmission is always used, so it's service interval will be unchanged by the hybrid system... but that's only about once at the midpoint of the vehicle's life for most people.
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:00 PM   #17
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Hybrid

Having a family with a plug-in hybrid (Toyota Prius) and an f150 for trailer towing gives us a lot of experience . This is the second Prius the first one was passed to a daughter and remains trouble free at 130000 miles. Our current gets 35 miles electric only and in a year we’ve filled it up 8 times as most of its duty is local. These cars have been excellent and reliable. The next gen Tundra is rumored to be a hybrid turbo. As the F150 is 15 years old I’ll be looking closely at that as well as other options including another f150. A lot less to go wrong in an electric motor. My kids will see the day when gas will be the minority energy source if we don’t blow ourselves up.
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Old 07-27-2019, 10:39 AM   #18
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As the F150 is 15 years old I’ll be looking closely at that as well as other options including another f150. A lot less to go wrong in an electric motor.
Except that in the case of a hybrid, the motor doesn't replace any engine complexity. The hybrid system in a Prius (and all Toyota hybrid models, and other Ford models with their "power split" system) is mechanically simpler than a conventional automatic transmission, but the Aviator hybrid is a parallel system... it has all of the same parts as the gas-only version, plus the electric motor, battery, and high-power electronics.
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