5.0 TA Pin Weight - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 08-29-2018, 02:32 PM   #1
Tin
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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5.0 TA Pin Weight

Inside the closet wall is a "Vehicle Specification Nameplate". In regards to weights it shows the Tongue load range weight, GVWR and the Cargo Carrying Capacity.

Subtracting the C.C.C (1,001 lbs) from the GVWR (5,500 lbs) you end up with the U.V.W of 4,499 lbs.

The Tongue Load Range indicated by the 2017 E.T.I. Owners Manuel on page 14 is shown as 19% to 25%. On my trailer the 900lbs shown is 20% of the U.V.W.
This does not mean my pin was 900 lbs at delivery, merely indicating 20% of the U.V.W.
Once loaded with cargo, food, water one must weigh the trailer and distribute the load in order to achieve the 19% to 25% pin weight.


Chapter 3: Towing and Leveling.
It is an interesting read with a great amount of important information. E.T.I references 20% for the 5.0TA Pin Weight in several places.


GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)
The maximum permissible weight of this coach when fully loaded. It includes all weight at the unitís axle(s) and tongue or
pin.


UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)
The weight of this trailer as manufactured at the factory. It includes all weight at the trailer axle(s) and tongue or pin. The UVW does not include cargo or fresh water.


CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity)
This is the maximum amount of cargo you can safely add to this vehicle. Cargo carrying capacity is calculated with all manufacturer installed equipment, full propane tanks and full fresh water tank. We strongly recommend weighing your loaded RV prior to travel as described in this manual beginning on page 15 to ascertain you are within all weight limitations.

Happy Camping
Tin.
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File Type: jpg 1.VEHICLE SPECIFICATION NAMEPLATE.jpg (132.1 KB, 35 views)
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Old 08-29-2018, 03:28 PM   #2
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If the Cargo Carrying Capacity is (appropriately) calculated with full fresh water tank and water heater, then the Unloaded Vehicle Weight is about 4299 pounds (since there is 160 pounds of water and 40 pounds of propane).

The 4299 pound value makes sense to me, since the base dry weight of a current 5.0TA is listed as 3885 pounds, and even 4299 pounds as-equipped and dry would imply 414 pounds in options on Tin's trailer.

The visible part of this form does not say whether or not fresh water is considered in the CCC calculation. Tin, do you also have a label like this one?

(Sample from a 2016 Escape 21')
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Old 08-29-2018, 03:29 PM   #3
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Minor notes:
  1. If Escape is going to use a typewriter which makes the same mark for the digit "1" and the lower case letter "l", they really should put a space between the value and the "lbs"!
  2. The numbered hitch classes defined by VESC V-5 and SAE J684 are only for ball hitches, not fifth-wheels. "Class 4 hitch" does not apply to a 5.0TA, although that is the right weight range.
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:27 PM   #4
Tin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
If the Cargo Carrying Capacity is (appropriately) calculated with full fresh water tank and water heater, then the Unloaded Vehicle Weight is about 4299 pounds (since there is 160 pounds of water and 40 pounds of propane).

The 4299 pound value makes sense to me, since the base dry weight of a current 5.0TA is listed as 3885 pounds, and even 4299 pounds as-equipped and dry would imply 414 pounds in options on Tin's trailer.

The visible part of this form does not say whether or not fresh water is considered in the CCC calculation. Tin, do you also have a label like this one?

(Sample from a 2016 Escape 21')
Brian B-P
Yes I have the "Transport Canada label" but honestly the number do not seem to add up ? also the wrong tongue/pin weight sticker was put on. When I asked at orientation they said they ran out of the right stickers.
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File Type: jpg 2.Vehicle Inspection Label.jpg (152.1 KB, 30 views)
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin View Post
Yes I have the "Transport Canada label" but honestly the number do not seem to add up ?
The calculation on the sticker suggests
2500 kg GVWR - 127 kg freshwater - 27 kg hot water - 455 kg CCC = 1891 kg unloaded (presumably including 18 kg propane)

In pounds, that's
5500 lb GVWR - 280 lb freshwater - 60 lb hot water - 1003 lb CCC = 4157 lb unloaded (presumably including 40 lb propane)

1891 kg is not exactly 4157 lb, but there's some rounding going on here. Depending on which values you believe, that implies 272 to 284 pounds of options (and propane)

Also, sorry, but I didn't allow enough water weight in my earlier post... a combination of a typo in my calculations and the units of the tank volume (I assumed 28 US gallons and Escape is basing it on 28 Imperial gallons; I also forgot to convert from kg to lb).
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:48 PM   #6
Tin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The calculation on the sticker suggests
2500 kg GVWR - 127 kg freshwater - 27 kg hot water - 455 kg CCC = 1891 kg unloaded (presumably including 18 kg propane)

In pounds, that's
5500 lb GVWR - 280 lb freshwater - 60 lb hot water - 1003 lb CCC = 4157 lb unloaded (presumably including 40 lb propane)

1891 kg is not exactly 4157 lb, but there's some rounding going on here. Depending on which values you believe, that implies 272 to 284 pounds of options (and propane)

Also, sorry, but I didn't allow enough water weight in my earlier post... a combination of a typo in my calculations and the units of the tank volume (I assumed 28 US gallons and Escape is basing it on 28 Imperial gallons; I also forgot to convert from kg to lb).
Hi Brian B-P
I came across some of the same issues with conversion/rounding and just trying to figure out what is empty what is full and how escape incorporates these items to get there numbers. I did not even think about imperial gallons! so I learned something new .
I present the 3rd piece of the puzzle for you. (please note on E.T.I. check-off list under shipping the Lbs and KG are reversed)
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File Type: jpg 3.Certificate of Origin-ETI Check Off List.jpg (175.2 KB, 27 views)
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Old 08-30-2018, 12:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Tin View Post
I present the 3rd piece of the puzzle for you. (please note on E.T.I. check-off list under shipping the Lbs and KG are reversed)
Now that's a muddle of numbers. Aside from the kg/lb units being reversed, the label of "Cargo: Shipping: Pounds:" makes no sense (maybe it is supposed to be just cargo capacity and shipping weight, both in pounds?). The intent of the 4499 pound value is unclear; it is presumably the wet weight (GVWR less CCC; or unloaded weight plus freshwater, water heater contents, and propane).
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Old 08-30-2018, 12:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin View Post
Brian B-P
Yes I have the "Transport Canada label" but honestly the number do not seem to add up ? also the wrong tongue/pin weight sticker was put on. When I asked at orientation they said they ran out of the right stickers.
I just checked my sticker because I seem to remember reading that it said the same 10-15 not 20 percent.

Guess they were out of stickers for a while. Our 5.0TA was built in Sept. 2016 four months before yours.
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Old 08-30-2018, 04:32 PM   #9
Tin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emers382 View Post
I just checked my sticker because I seem to remember reading that it said the same 10-15 not 20 percent.

Guess they were out of stickers for a while. Our 5.0TA was built in Sept. 2016 four months before yours.
Hi emers382
Well at least I was not the only one.

Where are just a couple snipets from 201 7 owner manual Chapter 3 (which is on E.T.I. website in PDF form) if anyones interested.
Attached Images
File Type: png 4.Weighing Your Fifth Wheel.PNG (87.1 KB, 18 views)
File Type: png 5.Weight Distribution.PNG (120.0 KB, 23 views)
File Type: png 6.Trailer Loading.PNG (86.3 KB, 19 views)
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Old 08-30-2018, 04:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin View Post
Where are just a couple snipets from 2017 owner manual Chapter 3...
I think it's strange that they advise that the waste tanks should be empty, since they are ahead of the axle and low (although the black tank is a bit higher than grey)... the location of their mass improves stability if anything, although sloshing can be bad. At the same time, they don't mention keeping the fresh tank empty, but it is behind the axle so greater mass there hurts stability.

If the trailer was within GVWR and stable with fresh water and no waste, it will still be within GVWR and more stable with the water moved to the waste tanks.
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