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03-03-2016, 06:24 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Midcoast, Maine
Trailer: 2016 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 435
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5.0TA Hitch Safety Chains
So I realize there are three types of hitches; traditional kingpin, Andersen and the new Pull Rite Super Lite, and while I am completely confused as to which I will get and why, one thing I'm more confused about...
For the goosenecks, I understand that they need a safety chain in some states. I emailed Pull Rite today and got this response:
"Even though the Super Lite lets you connect like a gooseneck, we consider it a 5th wheel hitch. Even though Indiana is not a safety chain state, we are confident that the Super Lite is safe without them. We do understand that some states require safety chains and are currently working on a solution for that. Information on those should be available sometime next week."
My question is this, are safety chains any more of an annoyance on a 5th wheel as they are on a tow behind? And would they "bind" if turning a sharp corner, either forward or in reverse?
Not to thrilled about having to remember to unhook it before turning...I want it simple. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
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03-03-2016, 06:58 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA (Little Elsie) Extensively Personalized
Posts: 2,976
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In regards to Pullrite stating that they consider the Superlight a 5th Wheel hitch, do you want to be defending yourself in court relying on the manufacturer's opinion? If it is not a conventional 5th wheel hitch, many States require safety chains, period. And it is doubtful that they would be any more of an annoyance than on a pull behind. They are reguired with a gooseneck hitch which, like a conventional 5th wheel hitch is also in the bed of the truck.
__________________
What a long strange trip it’s been!
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03-03-2016, 07:54 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanj04011
For the goosenecks, I understand that they need a safety chain in some states. I emailed Pull Rite today and got this response:
"Even though the Super Lite lets you connect like a gooseneck, we consider it a 5th wheel hitch. Even though Indiana is not a safety chain state, we are confident that the Super Lite is safe without them. We do understand that some states require safety chains and are currently working on a solution for that. Information on those should be available sometime next week.
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That is as big a pile of steaming excrement as I have seen from a manufacturer. I may consider my car to be Formula One race car... but the fact is that it's not. To be fair, they do seem to have conceded that regardless of their opinion the chains will be required in some states (and although they are not considering the possibility of Canadian customers, the same logic would apply to provinces requiring chains).
Yes, the hitch is safe without chains... to the same extent that any ball hitch is safe without chains. If you latch it, it will be fine; if you don't the trailer could bounce off. Any hitch could break (although that's extraordinarily rare). This hitch is "inverted" (ball on the top instead of the usual bottom), but that doesn't make any difference.
If some state (or province) has a rule that says "safety chains are required for any hitch that Pulliam Enterprises thinks isn't safe enough", then that company's opinion matters. That seems unlikely to me. I think you'll find that the rules say either: - safety chains are required for ball hitches; or,
- safety chains are required except for fifth-wheel hitches.
It is a ball hitch, and it is not a fifth-wheel hitch, so in either of these cases you would need the chains.
I suppose that it is possible that some jurisdiction has a rule that says you don't need the chains if the hitch is in the truck bed or over the truck axle, and in that case you wouldn't need chains to meet the rule, with any hitch system located there.
Any sensible rule would treat the Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection and the Pullrite SuperLite the same way, since both are located in the same place and both are ball hitches with manually engaged latches needed only to prevent the trailer from lifting off of the hitch.
I am disappointed, but sadly not surprised, that a company would design and build a product and offer it to the public without having even thought about such a basic consideration as whether or not a hitch requires the use of safety chains. Fortunately, you can set up chains without any provision in the SuperLite; the chains go from the trailer (where ever you see fit to attach them) to the safety chain loops provided with your under-bed hitch system. This is true of the Andersen Ultimate as well - you don't need to use their ring-equipped bolts.
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03-03-2016, 08:00 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanj04011
My question is this, are safety chains any more of an annoyance on a 5th wheel as they are on a tow behind? And would they "bind" if turning a sharp corner, either forward or in reverse?
Not to thrilled about having to remember to unhook it before turning...I want it simple.
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The only additional annoyance of chains for a hitch in the truck bed, compared to a hitch at the bumper, is that you need to reach in to the safety chain loops to hook on the chains when hitching (and to unhook them before unhitching) - those loops are normally beside or just behind the ball, and well in toward the middle of the truck, so they could be tough to reach over the box sides, especially with the front of the trailer in the way. It can be annoying to bend down to the chain loops on the receiver under a bumper, but at least they're not a long reach from where you can stand.
There should be no binding if the chains are set at an appropriate length and attached to the trailer in suitable locations, just as there is no binding with a chains on a tow-behind... again, if they are the right length for the combination of trailer and tug chain loop location. If the chains were to bind in sharp corners, you would not be able to safely drive with them, so they would be entirely unworkable (not just inconvenient).
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03-03-2016, 09:23 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Midcoast, Maine
Trailer: 2016 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 435
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Thanks for the replies. I'm not concerned about by the chains in principle, and I understand that the manufacturers want to market their hitches as the the best thing since sliced bread. I just was concerned that there would be restrictions in movement with the chains. I guess there might not be.
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03-04-2016, 06:49 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA, 2014- RAM HEMI 8 spd
Posts: 447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanj04011
So I realize there are three types of hitches; traditional kingpin, Andersen and the new Pull Rite Super Lite, and while I am completely confused as to which I will get and why, one thing I'm more confused about...
For the goosenecks, I understand that they need a safety chain in some states. I emailed Pull Rite today and got this response:
"Even though the Super Lite lets you connect like a gooseneck, we consider it a 5th wheel hitch. Even though Indiana is not a safety chain state, we are confident that the Super Lite is safe without them. We do understand that some states require safety chains and are currently working on a solution for that. Information on those should be available sometime next week."
My question is this, are safety chains any more of an annoyance on a 5th wheel as they are on a tow behind? And would they "bind" if turning a sharp corner, either forward or in reverse?
Not to thrilled about having to remember to unhook it before turning...I want it simple. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
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I use safety chains on my Andersen, its does not hinder any movement at all, and its super easy to install and remove. The only time you need to disconnect them is when you are unhitching.
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03-04-2016, 07:31 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Mike,
Can you post some pictures of your chains/hitch while connected? Would be very helpful.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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03-04-2016, 08:32 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA, 2014- RAM HEMI 8 spd
Posts: 447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
Mike,
Can you post some pictures of your chains/hitch while connected? Would be very helpful.
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Currently I don't have any while connected of the bed and chains. I'll be hitching up next week or sooner and will post some then.
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03-08-2016, 10:15 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA, 2014- RAM HEMI 8 spd
Posts: 447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
Mike,
Can you post some pictures of your chains/hitch while connected? Would be very helpful.
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Here are photos of the Andersen safety chains:
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03-08-2016, 10:29 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Thanks Mike, answers a lot of my questions.Where do you connect the emergency cable to the tow?
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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03-08-2016, 11:27 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba55
Here are photos of the Andersen safety chains:
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Thanks That looks like the setup sold by Andersen, with replacement clamping bolts for the coupler that have loops welded onto them. Why not use much shorter chains, so if they are ever needed the trailer doesn't move so far before slamming into the end of the chain? As it is, if the trailer ever came forward it would run right into the cab, and side-to-side it would be very difficult for the truck to control a trailer with so much freedom to move. The shackles which attach the chains to the coupler bolts can be attached to any link of the chain to adjust the length.
It's unfortunate that there are not proper safety chain anchors on the truck, rather than hooking to those bars on the Andersen frame.
Anyone planning to use the "gooseneck" version of the Andersen Ultimate, which is anchored to a ball in the bed floor rather than rails as shown here, should use the safety chain loops provided in the bed floor.
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03-08-2016, 11:29 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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I believe Jim B is using that set up. BTW, Andersen is supposedly coming out with a locking release pin mechanism soon.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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03-08-2016, 01:27 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA, 2014- RAM HEMI 8 spd
Posts: 447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
I believe Jim B is using that set up. BTW, Andersen is supposedly coming out with a locking release pin mechanism soon.
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Jim, I'm unclear on what you mean by locking pin? The current has a locking pin as well.
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03-08-2016, 01:29 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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I was referring to the cable release mechanism, Thought it was turn and lock but no way to prevent someone from accidentally or purposely turning the lever while in a parking lot someplace.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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03-08-2016, 01:40 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA, 2014- RAM HEMI 8 spd
Posts: 447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Thanks That looks like the setup sold by Andersen, with replacement clamping bolts for the coupler that have loops welded onto them. Why not use much shorter chains, so if they are ever needed the trailer doesn't move so far before slamming into the end of the chain? As it is, if the trailer ever came forward it would run right into the cab, and side-to-side it would be very difficult for the truck to control a trailer with so much freedom to move. The shackles which attach the chains to the coupler bolts can be attached to any link of the chain to adjust the length.
It's unfortunate that there are not proper safety chain anchors on the truck, rather than hooking to those bars on the Andersen frame.
Anyone planning to use the "gooseneck" version of the Andersen Ultimate, which is anchored to a ball in the bed floor rather than rails as shown here, should use the safety chain loops provided in the bed floor.
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You can easily shorten the chain. Simply move the shackle up the chain.
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03-08-2016, 01:42 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA, 2014- RAM HEMI 8 spd
Posts: 447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
I was referring to the cable release mechanism, Thought it was turn and lock but no way to prevent someone from accidentally or purposely turning the lever while in a parking lot someplace.
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Ok, I understand now. Fortunately, I'm in the habit of checking that among other things whenever we stop. However, a locking device would be comforting.
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03-08-2016, 04:04 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba55
You can easily shorten the chain. Simply move the shackle up the chain.
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Yes, I agree - I said the same thing. My question was why you run them so long... and of course I'm also suggesting to others that they keep them much shorter.
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03-08-2016, 04:06 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba55
Jim, I'm unclear on what you mean by locking pin? The current has a locking pin as well.
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When Jim first mentioned this I sent this question to Andersen:
Quote:
I heard in an online forum discussion that Andersen is planning to introduce some changes to the Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection system. One was described as"a locking "Release pin" for the Ultimate to prevent accidental release of the pin." Does this mean a positive locking feature for the coupler's latching pin, rather than just the twist-activated friction lock which is currently incorporated in the remote release cable handle? This would be welcome, as the current solution just doesn't seem to me to adequately ensure that the coupler is latched
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That was a week ago; no response yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
I was referring to the cable release mechanism, Thought it was turn and lock but no way to prevent someone from accidentally or purposely turning the lever while in a parking lot someplace.
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I was thinking of accidental slippage of the friction lock, rather than tamper-resistance, but both are potential concerns.
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03-08-2016, 05:17 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA, 2014- RAM HEMI 8 spd
Posts: 447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
When Jim first mentioned this I sent this question to Andersen:
That was a week ago; no response yet.
I was thinking of accidental slippage of the friction lock, rather than tamper-resistance, but both are potential concerns.
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I assume you emailed them. I've had good luck getting answers calling the number on their website.
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03-08-2016, 07:33 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba55
I assume you emailed them. I've had good luck getting answers calling the number on their website.
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Yes, it was e-mail. Calling is an idea worth trying, but I'm not in a rush, and in the past I have had good response from Andersen to e-mail. I generally like e-mail for technical information because it can be more clear, especially when specific part names or links to online information are involved. Also, phone contact means following their schedule...
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