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Old 08-21-2018, 05:54 PM   #1
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A diet is in order.....

.... for both me and my 5.0TA

I finally got around to weighing it at a small self serve roadside scale. I had a half tank of fresh water and empty black and grey tanks. We had lots of food and lots of drinks in the trailer. Man, carrying in the food to the house I was blown away with the weight of food we had. Might also look at picking up beer along the way as opposed to carrying quite a few dozen. Is 6 bottles of Scotch too much? I think not.

Anyway, here are the numbers.

Axles hitched scale weights
F - 1560 kg
R - 1570 kg
T - 2250 kg or
Total - 5380 kg or 11,836 lb

Axles unhitched scale weights
F- 1520 kg
R- 1260 kg
Total truck weight - 2780 kg or 6116 lb

Truck hitched - 3130 kg
Truck unhitched - 2780 kg
Hitch weight - 350 kg or 77 lb

So, the total weight of the trailer is 5720 lbs, of which 770 lbs is the hitch weight, and 4950 lbs is the axle weight. Is the GVWR of 55 lbs listed by Escape for the trailer the overall weight (I kinda assume it is), or is it the weight the axles are rated to carry. If the former, I am 220 lbs over, and with the latter, 55 lbs under.

There are two 3500 lb axles, so that would seem to be fine weight wise.

There really is nothing more to add weight wise to the trailer, any additional stuff we would take would go in the truck, and we could easily move or remove some weight in the trailer.

Maybe I need to try another weigh scale.

Thoughts and opinions as always are appreciated.
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Old 08-21-2018, 06:35 PM   #2
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I agree that the 5500 GVWR is the trailer weight including the pin. Since you did so much cabinetry work did you get an empty weight after your work to compare? Do you think it is accurate to say you have 1000 lbs or more of stuff in the trailer?

Maybe you should stop collecting souvenir rocks?
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:04 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
I agree that the 5500 GVWR is the trailer weight including the pin. Since you did so much cabinetry work did you get an empty weight after your work to compare? Do you think it is accurate to say you have 1000 lbs or more of stuff in the trailer?

Maybe you should stop collecting souvenir rocks?
This is the first I have weighed the trailer. There is no way I added more than a couple hundred pounds over what the factory install would be with the cabinetry work. I do estimate the cargo box to weigh about 400 lbs loaded. We do have to look at how much "stuff" we take, especially with consumables that can be refreshed more often.

What I may do when I have time (whenever that will be), is to totally unload the trailer and see what the weight is.

I don't have many rocks, but I do have a bocce set, and it is heavy.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:07 PM   #4
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Forgot to add, I suspect ETI is setting the GVWR based on the frame. That is just a guess on my part though. Obviously the axles can handle more weight.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:17 PM   #5
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Forgot to add, I suspect ETI is setting the GVWR based on the frame. That is just a guess on my part though. Obviously the axles can handle more weight.
I am guessing that too. I might just send Reace a query on this.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:38 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
So, the total weight of the trailer is 5720 lbs, of which 770 lbs is the hitch weight, and 4950 lbs is the axle weight. Is the GVWR of [5500] lbs listed by Escape for the trailer the overall weight (I kinda assume it is), or is it the weight the axles are rated to carry. If the former, I am 220 lbs over, and with the latter, 55 lbs under.
The 5500 pound value is certainly Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (so you are overweight, as you assumed), not the total Gross Axle Weight Rating.

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There are two 3500 lb axles, so that would seem to be fine weight wise.
It's good to avoid loading tandem Torflex axles to their ratings because they don't share load equally over bumps, and don't even on flat ground unless the trailer frame is completely level... but still, there's lots of margin there.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:45 PM   #7
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Just remove all the adult beverages from the trailer Jim. That'll shed at least 500 lbs. Won't be much fun however.

Seriously though, perhaps things like the Dickinson Marine Oven and the rear storage box have added more than you thought?
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
This is the first I have weighed the trailer. There is no way I added more than a couple hundred pounds over what the factory install would be with the cabinetry work. I do estimate the cargo box to weigh about 400 lbs loaded.
...
The stock base empty dry weight is listed by Escape as 3885 pounds, but then there are options (which all add weight) and customizations (perhaps a reduction due to your stripped cabinetry)... then your added cabinetry, cargo box, cargo, half-tank of water, propane, and possibly propane tanks (don't know if they are included in base/dry/empty).

So
  • empty trailer: 3885 lb +options -omitted cabinetry +custom cabinets
  • cargo box (loaded): 400 lb
  • half tank fresh water: 112 lb (assuming 28 gallon spec is in U.S. gallons)
  • water heater tank contents: 48 lb
  • propane: 40 lb (assuming full)
... which is 4685 pounds so far (without considering options or cargo not in the box), assuming that the net cabinetry effect is +200 pounds. 5720 pounds is still a half-ton away.

Did Escape provide an as-built weight for your trailer, with your options and customizations? Is there a carrying capacity statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
What I may do when I have time (whenever that will be), is to totally unload the trailer and see what the weight is.)
That will be interesting. I assume you didn't weigh it when you picked it up.

Jim, you asked for thoughts and opinions. My first thought is that it's not a huge surprise, and my opinion is that while some leaner choices are in order, it's not likely a significant problem.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:04 PM   #9
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Do not forget that really nice stove/oven combo. Using the 5800 lbs number and with 6 healthy adults inside he could approach the axle maximum.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:12 PM   #10
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🤔 if it rides good, pulls good, I wouldn’t worry about it. 😁 Now where have I heard that before?
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:12 PM   #11
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Using the 5800 lbs number and with 6 healthy adults inside he could approach the axle maximum.
Well yes, but thank goodness, that's not under tow.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:13 PM   #12
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if it rides good, pulls good, I wouldn’t worry about it. Now where have I heard that before?
FGRV perhaps? Some of the towing advice there is - how do I put this kindly - lunacy.
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Old 08-21-2018, 08:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4 View Post
Just remove all the adult beverages from the trailer Jim. That'll shed at least 500 lbs. Won't be much fun however.

Seriously though, perhaps things like the Dickinson Marine Oven and the rear storage box have added more than you thought?
I will just have to pick up bottled and can stuff as we go, we do have and tend to have more of a supply than needed. Nice to check out local stuff anyway.

The oven is likely heavier than one installed by Escape due to it's more solid build. I do plan to remove the cargo box and weigh it when I find time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The stock base empty dry weight is listed by Escape as 3885 pounds, but then there are options (which all add weight) and customizations (perhaps a reduction due to your stripped cabinetry)... then your added cabinetry, cargo box, cargo, half-tank of water, propane, and possibly propane tanks (don't know if they are included in base/dry/empty).

So
  • empty trailer: 3885 lb +options -omitted cabinetry +custom cabinets
  • cargo box (loaded): 400 lb
  • half tank fresh water: 112 lb (assuming 28 gallon spec is in U.S. gallons)
  • water heater tank contents: 48 lb
  • propane: 40 lb (assuming full)
... which is 4685 pounds so far (without considering options or cargo not in the box), assuming that the net cabinetry effect is +200 pounds. 5720 pounds is still a half-ton away.

Did Escape provide an as-built weight for your trailer, with your options and customizations? Is there a carrying capacity statement?


That will be interesting. I assume you didn't weigh it when you picked it up.

Jim, you asked for thoughts and opinions. My first thought is that it's not a huge surprise, and my opinion is that while some leaner choices are in order, it's not likely a significant problem.
I never considered the water heater but that is always full.

The only thing I would ever need to add to what I have is a full water tank, and I did have one propane that showed empty right after I weighed in, so could potentially go up another 130 pounds.

There is a fair bit I can do to reduce, lots could either be transferred to the truck or eliminated completely. We drag around bocce balls which we use at our land all the time, but have not used once on the road, just as one example.

I am not aware of any as built weights from Escape, though that would be a bit moot in this case as it is what it is. As mentioned, I have not weighed the trailer before.

We have a lot of "stuff", and could definitely look for lighter options, and reduction of gear.

I am a bit surprised, but not a lot. The trailer tows great, and my hitch weight is at 13.5% of the total, so that is not a concern. I do plan to put it on a diet regardless.
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Do not forget that really nice stove/oven combo. Using the 5800 lbs number and with 6 healthy adults inside he could approach the axle maximum.
It is illegal here to tow with even one person in the trailer so that is not a concern.
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I am not aware of any as built weights from Escape, though that would be a bit moot in this case as it is what it is.
While not strictly "as built", I thought Escape was providing a weight calculated to match the build sheet (that is, adding options to the base), and a calculated carrying capacity based on that (and GVWR, and tank capacities). In this case, they would actually have to weigh it to accurately account for the custom omissions, but they could guess at that, or just ignore the customizations. So, no carrying capacity listed anywhere by Escape, specifically for this unit?

While the trailer has been built and customized so it's weight isn't going to change, it would be helpful for planning to know what that weight is without emptying it and taking it to a scale.
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:31 PM   #15
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Do not forget that really nice stove/oven combo. Using the 5800 lbs number and with 6 healthy adults inside he could approach the axle maximum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
It is illegal here to tow with even one person in the trailer so that is not a concern.
I assume that the comment about occupants and the axle maximum applied to stationary use. As Robert pointed out, the GAWR is for load while moving (which means accounting for bump loads); even if there were no jacks deployed there wouldn't be an issue in camp.
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Old 08-21-2018, 10:50 PM   #16
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As I recall, I didn't eat any of Jim's food. Therein lies the problem. Other trailers at the rally are lighter now thanks to me.
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Old 08-22-2018, 10:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
This is the first I have weighed the trailer. There is no way I added more than a couple hundred pounds over what the factory install would be with the cabinetry work. I do estimate the cargo box to weigh about 400 lbs loaded. We do have to look at how much "stuff" we take, especially with consumables that can be refreshed more often.

What I may do when I have time (whenever that will be), is to totally unload the trailer and see what the weight is.

I don't have many rocks, but I do have a bocce set, and it is heavy.
Hi Jim!

When I read your Cabinetry Work In My 5.0TA my first impression was to take our camper to your house and have you do the same to ours. Awesome Work! However, my next impression was, "How much weight did he add?" With those additions and the huge box in back, now you know.

We will be driving through Calgary to Cochrane to stay with friends on our way to ETI to pick up our 5.0TA the end of October. I'm hoping we'll be able to get together. How much do you charge for 5.0TA tours?

Good luck with the weight loss!

Perry
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Old 08-22-2018, 10:52 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
While not strictly "as built", I thought Escape was providing a weight calculated to match the build sheet (that is, adding options to the base), and a calculated carrying capacity based on that (and GVWR, and tank capacities). In this case, they would actually have to weigh it to accurately account for the custom omissions, but they could guess at that, or just ignore the customizations. So, no carrying capacity listed anywhere by Escape, specifically for this unit?

While the trailer has been built and customized so it's weight isn't going to change, it would be helpful for planning to know what that weight is without emptying it and taking it to a scale.
I am not aware of any weights given to us, though to be honest never looked close at the paperwork. I might dig that up, though have no idea where it is since the move.

Yes, I definitely will be taking it to a scale empty. I imagine I can find one around here though haven't looked yet. It was a bit of a surprise seeing the one I did right along Highway 1 in Saskatchewan, which was just a simple scale on the side of the road, no kiosk for highway employees or anything.
Quote:
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As I recall, I didn't eat any of Jim's food. Therein lies the problem. Other trailers at the rally are lighter now thanks to me.
We also did not eat enough of our own food, and likely bought more than we did eat. Lisa packs for just about any scenario I believe, something we need to look closer at too.
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Hi Jim!

When I read your Cabinetry Work In My 5.0TA my first impression was to take our camper to your house and have you do the same to ours. Awesome Work! However, my next impression was, "How much weight did he add?" With those additions and the huge box in back, now you know.

We will be driving through Calgary to Cochrane to stay with friends on our way to ETI to pick up our 5.0TA the end of October. I'm hoping we'll be able to get together. How much do you charge for 5.0TA tours?

Good luck with the weight loss!

Perry
The custom cabinetry will not add much more in itself, though will be a bit heavier than stock. Part of it is that we now have more space to store stuff. Dual batteries, A/C, solar stuff, etc, all add to it too.

No problem stopping by to see my trailer just as long as I have it in town. I would be glad to show it to you.
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Old 08-22-2018, 07:14 PM   #19
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Yes, I definitely will be taking it to a scale empty. I imagine I can find one around here though haven't looked yet. It was a bit of a surprise seeing the one I did right along Highway 1 in Saskatchewan, which was just a simple scale on the side of the road, no kiosk for highway employees or anything.
There are some unattended scales run by provincial agencies as a convenience for truckers, to allow them to check weight and help them manage their loads. There are also some which are remotely attended by staff at another location, sometimes just on the other side of a divided highway. I haven't noticed that one in Saskatchewan.

Alberta Transportation scales near Calgary include northbound on Highway 2 north of Balzac and eastbound on Highway 1 east of Highway 9. They probably both have outside displays which operate all of the time - most Alberta government scales do.
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Old 08-22-2018, 07:21 PM   #20
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There are some unattended scales run by provincial agencies as a convenience for truckers, to allow them to check weight and help them manage their loads. There are also some which are remotely attended by staff at another location, sometimes just on the other side of a divided highway. I haven't noticed that one in Saskatchewan.

Alberta Transportation scales near Calgary include northbound on Highway 2 north of Balzac and eastbound on Highway 1 east of Highway 9. They probably both have outside displays which operate all of the time - most Alberta government scales do.
I will check that one near Balzac out for use, it is relatively handy for me.

That one in Saskatchewan is on westbound Highway 1, 12 km west of Swift Current. I was unsure of the exact location, but found it here.
https://www.saskatchewan.ca/business...cale-locations
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