Best Towing Vehicles for a 17B or 19' Escape

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by freespirit

have been carrying a spare serpentine in all vehicles and the wrench required to put on for years..perhaps never having one break this has at least been good karma..have seen other unhappy drivers though that did not have good karma!

Hi: freespirit... Unhappy is if your "Karma" runs over my "Dogma". Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

If tires age out, do serpentine belts also age out?

Yes - a old belt cracks eventually even if not in use - but in my experience it takes a lot more than the six (or is now five, or four...) years that tire sales people says that tires last. The serpentine belts have an additional challenge compared to a traditional V-belt because they bend in both directions, but their design takes that into account (they are thin multi-vee designs with rubber on both sides suitable for running on pulleys).

I have only replaced them by mileage. On the van, I've found them to squeak when they get old, but none have failed - I don't recall any belt (regular V, serpentine, or timing) failing on any of my vehicles, although some have looked pretty rough by the time they were replaced. The 13-year-old van has a couple hundred thousand kilometres now, and just got its second set of accessory belts.

[gbaglo]

I had the timing belt on my Subaru wagon fail in the middle of the Second Narrows bridge. Really strange. All of sudden there was no engine noise. Luckily I was on the crest and coasted down and off the road. And, luckily the engine didn't blow itself to smithereens as they are prone to do in that situation. Was about 5,000 kilometers prior to when it was due to be replaced.

[thoer]

You were lucky Glenn as your Subaru must have had a non-interference engine. A buddy had it happen on his old Camry and luckily for him it too was non-interference.

With a non-interference engine the engine just stops, with usually no damage to it.

A timing belt breaking on vehicles with an interference type engine usually mean serious engine damage - at least bent valves and sometimes a lot more. On them, the piston and valve can try to occupy the same space at the same time if the belt snaps.

Here is a fairly complete list of which engines are which: Interference Engines - The Complete List - Your Car Angel - Your Car Angel

I don't know how many engines still use timing belts as a lot seem to have switched over to timing chains and I don't keep up with that stuff anymore.

[gbaglo]

I don't know what engine the vehicle had, but I was told that I got lucky in that it broke at a certain point in the stroke.
But, I planted a bunch of valve stems and none have produced fruit, so what do I know?

[Iowa Dave]

If you happen to peruse a Toyota maintenance site it's kind of interesting where timing belts and chains are shown. It looks like about half and half. The 2012 Highlander I have has a chain which is not a service interval item. If wear becomes excessive it will throw a code to hopefully catch it in time. Heed the check engine light. The chain runs in oil, clean Mobil 1 oil, changed with religious fervor in my case.

[cpaharley2008]

Some vehicles require the serpentine change at around 60K and the dreaded timing belt at 100K- the second one is $$$

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

If you happen to peruse a Toyota maintenance site it's kind of interesting where timing belts and chains are shown. It looks like about half and half. The 2012 Highlander I have has a chain which is not a service interval item. If wear becomes excessive it will throw a code to hopefully catch it in time. Heed the check engine light. The chain runs in oil, clean Mobil 1 oil, changed with religious fervor in my case.

I wonder if they have gone with chains on interference ones and kept belts on non? I'm too lazy to cross reference and look.

[Rossue]

Interesting discussion; know several Honda owners who had bent valves after breaking a timing belt- was surprised to hear my old Sequoia 4.7L is an interference engine. Good info on topic at Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_engine

[Brian B-P]

A brief history of driving camshafts, for anyone interested in mechanical stuff:

1. valves were beside the cylinder, run by a cam below them, so the cam had a short chain or gear to the crankshaft (think Model T, or an old lawn mower)
2. before most of us were born, valves moved to up on top of the cylinder (usually called "OHV" for "overhead valve"), but the same camshaft position was used so long pushrods were use to run the valves (GM small-block V8 engines still do this, and it still works)
3. most camshafts moved up to the heads (overhead cam or OHC), so the pushrods were not needed any more, but a long timing chain to the crank was needed
4. the long timing chains were noisy, so most new engine designs switched to toothed belts (which were also light and needed no lubrication) three or four decades ago
5. the rest of the engine got so reliable and durable that the timing belt became the first thing needing replacement (at about 100,000 km or more) so most new engines for the last decade or so have gone back to timing chains, but really quiet and reliable chains now

The whole industry followed a similar pattern. I'm more familiar with Toyota engines than other brands, but certainly Toyota engines - 4, 6, and 8 cylinder - have followed this progression, although starting part-way through it (at pushrods for 4-cyl, straight-6, and V8; chain OHC for V6). My current running vehicles (Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Ford; inline 4, V6, and V10) are all of the timing belt generation; our pushrod Triumph isn't in use.

So, most car engines for quite a while were (and many still are) dependent on a toothed rubber timing belt which usually works fine but doesn't last the life of the engine.

[Brian B-P]

Timing belts used to be a bit expensive, but they're cheap now (a few dollars for smaller ones). The expensive part is the labour to change them, especially on complex engines crammed into engine compartments, particularly transversely. That labour cost is certainly part of the justification for going back to timing chains, but even a few hundred dollars once every 120,000 km (6 years for an average driver) isn't a big part of the vehicle's operating cost.

Timing chains don't require routine replacement, but they do sometimes fail, with the same consequences to valves and pistons as a timing belt failure (depending on interference), and probably more damage to the drive hardware.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I don't know what engine the vehicle had, but I was told that I got lucky in that it broke at a certain point in the stroke.
But, I planted a bunch of valve stems and none have produced fruit, so what do I know?

Hi: gbaglo... If your belt breaks that's when your pants are most likely to fall down... you trip and do a face plant!!! Serious damage may occur. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

our pushrod Triumph isn't in use.

So, most car engines for quite a while were (and many still are) dependent on a toothed rubber timing belt which usually works fine but doesn't last the life of the engine.

Yup, most people these days have never heard of "valve float" A regular occurrence on my old TRs until I went to stiffer valve springs.

The Toyota Twin Cam in my little car has a rubber belt with an unknown number of miles on it. I try not to think about when, ah, exercising the engine.

Ron

[Iowa Dave]

Hi Brian
Do you remember the signs that hung off the wall of the Buick Dealers? They proclaimed. "BUICK. Valve in Head Engine"
I'd like to have one with the neon around it but they bring some pretty big bucks these days.
Dave

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Hi Brian
Do you remember the signs that hung off the wall of the Buick Dealers? They proclaimed. "BUICK. Valve in Head Engine"
I'd like to have one with the neon around it but they bring some pretty big bucks these days.
Dave

I'm not that old... but at least I understand it!

[NCBill]

I like a full sized pickup as a tow vehicle. While a lot of people look at tow rating, they overlook payload rating on their TV. Many vehicles run out of payload WAY before running out of tow rating.

And I lived for many years in the mountain west (WA State). I got sick of going up mtn grades at 30MPH. So my tow vehicle kept getting larger.

Do you want to tow with the minimum vehicle, or do you want a margin over the minimum?

My F150 with a 5.4 V8 gets 18MPG when not towing, and I averaged 14MPG when I was towing my Casita through the western US (CO, UT, AZ, NM, etc.). Of course, the truck handled it with ease.

I have a supercab truck (not a Super Crew) with the 6.5 foot bed. If I was to do it again, I'd get the same truck. Now Ford sells several versions of their "Eco-boost" motors. Those can get 20+ MPG. Of course, I bought my truck used, with a whopping 12,000 miles on it, for half of what it cost new. It would take a long, long time for fuel savings to pay for the difference.

Study up on payload. Most mfrs do not include passengers (and the driver), and you have the weight of your hitch, tongue weight, anything in your truck, etc.

My truck rating is pretty hilarious. 8200 pound tow rating, but only 1450 payload. Put a driver, passenger, dog, gear, truck topper, hitch, and close to half that 1450 is gone. That leaves me 700 pounds plus / minus for tongue weight. More than enough for my Casita or an Escape, but no way close to enough for an 8200 pound trailer.

And RV and car sales people will tell you anything to get the sale. Ask them about payload capacity. And in the case of my truck, its a pretty loaded Lariat version. Very comfortable, but all those options lower the payload. Stripped down, my era truck would have had an 1800 pound + payload capacity. But who wants to drive a stripped down truck?