Breaking News: trucks!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I had a 6 cyl Jeep Liberty in 2012 and it was rated 5000/500 towing and it had the older 4.0 Jeep motor not the new Pentastar which put out more torque and hp.But they stopped making that model.

The 6-cylinder in a Liberty (KJ and KK) would have been the 3.7L PowerTech V6, a predecessor of the 3.6L Pentastar V6 used since 2012 in the Wrangler. The old 4.0L Jeep engine was a completely unrelated engine - the old AMC straight-six - used in the YJ and TJ Wranglers (up to 2006), but never the Liberty.

The engine isn't the limiting factor in Wrangler's towing capacity anyway - every variant of the Ram 1500 with the current version of the 3.6L Pentastar (same as used in the Wrangler) has more than 4200 pounds of towing capacity... and some go up to 7600 pounds with that engine.

As far as the engine and transmission are concerned, a Wrangler (SUV or truck) could have the same towing capacity as a Ram 1500 with the same engine (gas or diesel).

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

We already have a myriad of trucks ,
small trucks , big trucks , gas trucks , diesel trucks , plain trucks , fancy trucks , V4 trucks , V6 trucks , V8 trucks...

No current vehicles have V4 engines, but we know you meant inline 4-cylinder.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I thought that the SAE J2807 standard was required now which is supposed to define what a vehicle can carry and tow?

J2807 is for towing, not cargo payload. No manufacturer is required to rate their vehicles according to J2807, although all the pickup manufacturers agreed to do it... and Toyota actually did, followed much later by the "real truck" companies.

Also, J2807 is a testing standard: for a rating to be compliant with this standard, the vehicle must pass the tests with that trailer weight. Nothing stops a manufacturer from assigning any rating as low as they want, while maintaining compliance with the standard; they are not required to try heavier and heavier trailers until the vehicle fails. A deliberately low towing rating can be a way to manage the expectations of buyers, to discourage them from trying excessive loads.

It does seem reasonable to me that Jeep would ensure that the Wrangler pickup would have more useful towing capacity than current Wrangler, because many buyers expect to tow with pickup trucks.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

No current vehicles have V4 engines, but we know you meant inline 4-cylinder.

Thank You for clearing up my screw up .
All I know is that when you Rev one up it sounds like my Mom's old Singer sewing machine (Circa 1950 )

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

All I know is that when you Rev one up it sounds like my Mom's old Singer sewing machine (Circa 1950 )

Engine sound (usually really only exhaust sound) is really important to some people. It's unfortunate when it leads them to an unsuitable engine, just for the sound. I don't care much, but I'll admit the horrible noise of the unbalanced exhaust system on the flat-4 in a Subaru Imprezza was a minor factor in not buying one; I ended up with a Mazda 3 with a inline-4 and a properly configured exhaust system.

Turbocharging masks the inherent sound of an engine, making the now-common turbocharged inline four-cylinders sound more acceptable to buyers. Fiat Chrysler has one of these engines and will offer it in the new Wrangler, but reportedly not in the pickup version.

It doesn't matter what you do with the exhaust of a V4, it doesn't sound good (there are V4 motorcycle engines, and were V4 car engines from Ford). On the other hand, the same is true of a 45-degree V-twin, and yet many people claim to like Harley noise.

[cpaharley2008]

On the other hand, the same is true of a 45-degree V-twin, and yet many people claim to like Harley noise.
Yeppers, the ol potato gun noise. Harley riders go by the theme, "loud pipes save lives" saying it is better to be heard and seen while on the road.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

On the other hand, the same is true of a 45-degree V-twin, and yet many people claim to like Harley noise.
Yeppers, the ol potato gun noise. Harley riders go by the theme, "loud pipes save lives" saying it is better to be heard and seen while on the road.

Hi: cpaharley2008... Why some folks even change cams or detune to be "Hoid". BRROOM!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[thiggins]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

No current vehicles have V4 engines, but we know you meant inline 4-cylinder.

https://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsan...turesandspecs/

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by thiggins

https://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsan...turesandspecs/

What's the towing capacity? And does it come with an integrated brake controller? Might need mirror extensions for towing a 21' (or anything, for that matter). Now, what was the name of this thread again? Oh ya, "Breaking News: trucks!"

[War Eagle]

And then there's the old New Holland Haybine hay mower with the Wisconsin air-cooled V4 workhorse engine. But highway MPG really stinks!

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by thiggins

https://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsan...turesandspecs/

Wait, that can't be right. 900 hp from a V-4? I'm told ad nauseum that there's 'no replacement for displacement'. Apparently Lemans didn't get the memo.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Wait, that can't be right. 900 hp from a V-4? I'm told ad nauseum that there's 'no replacement for displacement'. Apparently Lemans didn't get the memo.

Apples to apples - fill its fuel tank with water-contaminated 87 octane from the interstate truck stop (probably more like 83 octane because they bought the discount stuff from a mom-and-pop refinery in the backwoods of Louisiana) and see what that does to its horsepower. Oh, and that 200 mm combined throttle box? Maybe cut that back to a factory 65 mm, and keep it under 10,000 RPM, just for comparison purposes.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Apples to apples - fill its fuel tank with water-contaminated 87 octane from the interstate truck stop (probably more like 83 octane because they bought the discount stuff from a mom-and-pop refinery in the backwoods of Louisiana) and see what that does to its horsepower. Oh, and that 200 mm combined throttle box? Maybe cut that back to a factory 65 mm, and keep it under 10,000 RPM, just for comparison purposes.

Well yeah, but my comment was tongue in cheek. It does point out however that engine size doesn't necessarily correlate to engine power.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Well yeah, but my comment was tongue in cheek. It does point out however that engine size doesn't necessarily correlate to engine power.

Agree, but I wonder what the hp would be if it was a V8 (twice the displacement) tricked out the same way. Probably not double, but certainly more. Kind of like plowing a field with a stack of three 1500 HP diesel V8's! (Well, not really that close of a comparison, but I thought it was a cool photo! )

[New Adventures]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

IMHO : Small diesel vehicles are a step backwards for little or no gain at least for that segment of the population who breathe air.

I am very pleased with the small diesel engine in my RAM truck. I really like my average 27mpg in a half ton truck unloaded and my 19mpg average towing loaded flat bed trailers (don't know what my average will be with the Escape but expect it will be good too). The alternatives (at least for RAM) are a gas thirsty V-8 or a V-6 that may or may not meed the needs of a truck owner. My wife has the V-6 in her Jeep - a good engine but - my diesel truck gets better mpg.

FWIW, I like the diesel and I like to breathe air too.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by New Adventures

I am very pleased with the small diesel engine in my RAM truck. I really like my average 27mpg in a half ton truck unloaded and my 19mpg average towing loaded flat bed trailers (don't know what my average will be with the Escape but expect it will be good too). The alternatives (at least for RAM) are a gas thirsty V-8 or a V-6 that may or may not meed the needs of a truck owner. My wife has the V-6 in her Jeep - a good engine but - my diesel truck gets better mpg.

FWIW, I like the diesel and I like to breathe air too.

If your only concern is MPG,s then your theory may be correct.
I measure a vehicle by cost to operate / own per mile
Using my method the diesel finishes in second place.
Plus some municipalities are looking at limiting diesels usage much in the same way the European Union is .
I did look at the Ram Ecodiesel but I was not willing to accept the reduced towing and payload limits.
Economically the numbers did not work for me but
YMMV

My wife has a severe case of COPD and diesel exhaust fumes are very difficult for her to deal with so my opinion is slightly tainted.

Happy Holidays

[War Eagle]

I wonder if those who fret over pickups with diesel engines hold their breath while passing airports. Roughly speaking, as near as I can figure, a modern Boeing 737 MAX7 commercial jet burns about 1.5 gallons of jet fuel (essentially a narrowly distilled kerosene) per mile (any jet enthusiasts out there with a better calculator than mine?). Multiply that times nearly 1,000,000 "flight movements" (take-offs and landings) per year at just the Atlanta-Hartsfield airport alone - times the number of miles all of those planes will be travelling to their destinations all over the world - then add in all the other jets landing and taking off at airports all over the world! For those concerned about air quality, there are a lot bigger issues to worry about than a relatively few diesel pickup trucks - including that beat-up old Chevy Caprice smog machine that pulled out in front of me the other night (cough, choke....)!

[gbaglo]

Reminds me of elementary school.
"He hit me first".

[New Adventures]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

If your only concern is MPG,s then your theory may be correct.
I measure a vehicle by cost to operate / own per mile
Using my method the diesel finishes in second place.
Plus some municipalities are looking at limiting diesels usage much in the same way the European Union is .
I did look at the Ram Ecodiesel but I was not willing to accept the reduced towing and payload limits.
Economically the numbers did not work for me but
YMMV

My wife has a severe case of COPD and diesel exhaust fumes are very difficult for her to deal with so my opinion is slightly tainted.

Happy Holidays

I also looked at performance, cost to operate, etc. In my case, I traded down from a 2500 because the smaller truck fits my current needs quite well. It has plenty of torque and good mileage for an everyday driver. I would have stayed with the larger truck if I had still needed its performance.

"Plus some municipalities are looking at limiting diesels usage much in the same way the European Union is ." - This is precisely why I would never reside in a city. Too many people telling other people what they need and what they should do. An acquaintance cannot even have a pickup truck in the driveway (the horror, a truck in the driveway). I love the rural life. I much prefer the rural homestead lifestyle - a lot less drama in my life.

As you said "YMMV". Its great that we have so many choices so that each of us can purchase the vehicle that best meets our needs.

Merry Christmas.

[War Eagle]

But just out of curiosity, follow me on this as I take this thread even further off topic (with lots of generalities, averages and loose conversions, I admit, but still):
IF: A commercial jet averages 1.5 gallons jet fuel per mile.
AND IF: You figure 2,800 miles New York City to Los Angeles.
THEN: One jet would burn 4,200 gallons of jet fuel in a single one-way trip - JFK to LAX.
FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT: Assume similar cetane efficiencies between Jet-A and Diesel #2 (ignoring respective additives in each).
AND IF: A diesel pickup would average 20 MPG on either fuel.
THEN: Said diesel pickup could travel 84,000 miles on the same volume of fuel as that single one-way plane trip from JFK to LAX. Make it a round-trip, and you're at 168,000 miles in the diesel pickup.
Just food for thought when concerned about exhaust from burning heavy distillates from fossil fuels.
Okay, I'm done now....