Do we need weight distribution hitch, max. tongue weight 1040 lbs

[a602pmcc]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

not having ever RV'd, I don't see tailgate interference as an issue. then again, i don't know any better.

Hi SouthernCamper,
It depends on what you keep in the back of the truck, and whether you'll need it when you get to a campsite, especially if you are traveling and don't want to unhook for the night. I hate the tailgate interference, and installed a Jack-E-Up in order to be able to remove the jack. The clearance is tight between the jack power head and the propane tank covers, but its doable. Works better with a manual jack.

But we keep lots of stuff in the back of the truck that we want access to most every night, such as firewood, Coleman stove, and a cooler. For longer trips we also keep an extra pantry box and maybe extra clothing/boots back there. The one thing you need is always in the hardest spot to get to. Climbing over the tailgate is no fun. Denting the tailgate by dropping it on the jack would be even worse.

FWIW,
Paul

[SouthernCamper]

also, I've just been educated that ETI sells ALL weight distribution hitches. i wasn't aware that what they were calling equalizer hitches were WDHs. how do I choose between the Pro-Series 600 lb Trunnion with sway bar, and the E2 by Fastway WDH with sway control?

do i need a power jack with either of these options?

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

Firestone Ride-Rite, kits are available for most trucks and many SUVs and some cars. I have them on my Tacoma. I setup each side to inflate seperately (two different air valves). when you're not loaded, you keep them around 5 PSI so they are pretty much not doing anything. with a medium sized trailer, you inflate them to 30 or 40 PSI typically, target is so the fully loaded and hitched truck is riding at the same height as it was empty... I measure from top of wheel to fender flare, its about 5" when empty, so after loading and dropping the hitch, I pump the two sides up til they are back to 5".

if you are going to also use a WDH, then airbag level the truck BEFORE hitching, do NOT pump the truck up with the WDH connected.

you can see the airbag here between the leaf spring and frame, the red tube on top is the air tube to it.

There is also Air Lift which is what we installed on our Tacoma. We also installed the air pump system so it keeps it at a preset air pressure. The one advantage of ours is you do not need to cut the bump stops. Both are well made, as long as you do not have anything rubbing or a rogue squirrel they should last for years.

[Don W.]

I have a Tundra and an Escape 21.

I have the WDH, Pro series with Sway Control. Yes it is overkill, but the system really does make the two (trailer and tug) one unit. It tows like a dream and I am confident of things. The WDH smoothes out the bumps and things that happen as well.

Still you must have it loaded properly and balanced, the WDH will then smooth it all out.

That is just my opinion, but we love our setup!

DOn

[SouthernCamper]

[QUOTE=a602pmcc;234048]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

not having ever RV'd, I don't see tailgate interference as an issue. then again, i don't know any better.

Hi SouthernCamper,
It depends on what you keep in the back of the truck, and whether you'll need it when you get to a campsite, especially if you are traveling and don't want to unhook for the night. I hate the tailgate interference, and installed a Jack-E-Up in order to be able to remove the jack. The clearance is tight between the jack power head and the propane tank covers, but its doable. Works better with a manual jack.

But we keep lots of stuff in the back of the truck that we want access to most every night, such as firewood, Coleman stove, and a cooler. For longer trips we also keep an extra pantry box and maybe extra clothing/boots back there. The one thing you need is always in the hardest spot to get to. Climbing over the tailgate is no fun. Denting the tailgate by dropping it on the jack would be even worse.

FWIW,
Paul

Thank you, Paul. We hope to do many nights on the road while hitched. We won't necessarily be unloading the truck each time, but I'd like to have that option without hating the process! Not the mention the inevitable needing of something packed in the truck bed while we're stopped during travel.

Could you explain in a little more detail what the jack-e-up does for you? I assume you use this while your power jack is installed, is that right?

are you still glad you have the power jack?

I've read at least one other post where someone modified their set-up to accommodate for the tailgate issue, any elaboration would be appreciated!

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

I thought the airbag leveling was something to consider instead of a WDH, did i misunderstand that? that process seems like so much work to set up for a trip. maybe because it's foreign to me?

The airbags will help level the rear of your tow vehicle if the tongue weight causes it to drop. That's not the same thing (or even something to be used instead of) as a weight distribution hitch. The purpose of a weight distribution hitch is to redistribute some weight from the rear of the tow to the front of the tow. In redistributing some of this weight to the front, a WDH will also often bring the rear of the tow vehicle up, but not in the same way as the airbags. They don't redistribute weight at all. Also, keep in mind that neither a weight distribution hitch or the airbags do anything for your towing capacity or maximum tongue weight. Those numbers are set by the manufacturer based on the type of vehicle and factory equipment.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by wetzk

No we still are able to spin away at the crank. When we gain a few more years it might be worth adding it. It is easy to add to the 19. Yours with the battery inside or the 17 with the battery in the back will not be as easy to add it.
If I had the 21 I probably would have had Escape add it from the beginning. The noise is not that bad. It's just at 5 am when you are trying to quietly move around breaking camp every little noise you make sounds like it is loud.

I’m not sure what power tongue jack ETI uses, but the Barker VIP 3000 and 3500 have a manual override with a crank handle inserted in the top. Not sure if you are fighting the motor gearing or there is another reason it might be impractical, but thought this might add some flexibility and allow one to be quieter if and when they wanted to.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I’m not sure what power tongue jack ETI uses, but the Barker VIP 3000 and 3500 have a manual override with a crank handle inserted in the top. Not sure if you are fighting the motor gearing or there is another reason it might be impractical, but thought this might add some flexibility and allow one to be quieter if and when they wanted to.

You 'can' hand crank them but I would not recommend it unless you have no choice due to electrical failure or a bad motor. It takes quite a bit of time and effort. If you're just trying to avoid noise, then I'd recommend using the stock hand crank and don't install a power jack.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

You 'can' hand crank them but I would not recommend it unless you have no choice due to electrical failure or a bad motor. It takes quite a bit of time and effort. If you're just trying to avoid noise, then I'd recommend using the stock hand crank and don't install a power jack.

Thanks. That’s what I was afraid of.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

You 'can' hand crank them but I would not recommend it unless you have no choice due to electrical failure or a bad motor. It takes quite a bit of time and effort. If you're just trying to avoid noise, then I'd recommend using the stock hand crank and don't install a power jack.

While I have to admit my power jack makes a bit of noise, it is nothing compared to most of the RVers that use an impact wrench to lower & raise their stabilizers!

[John in Santa Cruz]

i find with the airbags my trailer + tacoma trd doesn't bob or porpoise hardly at all. it was this porpoising that originally had me getting the WDH. basically, the back end of the Tacoma TRD Offroad is darn soft (which is good for offroading), and the tall 265/70r16 all terrain tires made it even worse.

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

The airbags will help level the rear of your tow vehicle if the tongue weight causes it to drop. That's not the same thing (or even something to be used instead of) as a weight distribution hitch. The purpose of a weight distribution hitch is to redistribute some weight from the rear of the tow to the front of the tow. In redistributing some of this weight to the front, a WDH will also often bring the rear of the tow vehicle up, but not in the same way as the airbags. They don't redistribute weight at all. Also, keep in mind that neither a weight distribution hitch or the airbags do anything for your towing capacity or maximum tongue weight. Those numbers are set by the manufacturer based on the type of vehicle and factory equipment.

Great to know, thank you. I see a few numbers on ETI's specs, but nothing that's obviously "tongue weight." What's the dry tongue weight on a 21', and how much weight is added when moderately loaded up? (Also, truck bed weight doesn't impact tongue weight right, just GVWR?)

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Exactly. Proper trailer loading and a weight distribution hitch are two different things. And a WDH certainly isn't a means of compensating for an improper load.

To properly load, do you just estimate weight distribution as you add items in, then check your tongue weight and try to stay within X lbs of when you leveled your WDH?

If you check tongue weight and see that it's spot on, how do you know you haven't just poorly distributed weight, leading to a perfect tongue weight but an uneven trailer?

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by a602pmcc

Hi SouthernCamper,
It depends on what you keep in the back of the truck, and whether you'll need it when you get to a campsite, especially if you are traveling and don't want to unhook for the night. I hate the tailgate interference, and installed a Jack-E-Up in order to be able to remove the jack. The clearance is tight between the jack power head and the propane tank covers, but its doable. Works better with a manual jack.

FWIW,
Paul

With the Jack-E-Up you completely remove the Jack once hitched up? Could you carry the Jack e up and only remove the Jack if you need to lower the tailgate while hitched?

Which version do you have?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

While I have to admit my power jack makes a bit of noise, it is nothing compared to most of the RVers that use an impact wrench to lower & raise their stabilizers!

Guilty. My cordless impact drill/driver is loud. My Atwood 4000 power jack is a bit quieter.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

Great to know, thank you. I see a few numbers on ETI's specs, but nothing that's obviously "tongue weight." What's the dry tongue weight on a 21', and how much weight is added when moderately loaded up?

There are too many variables to give you a tongue weight for the 21. Will it have a storage box for example? What will be the weight of the storage box contents? What about the propane tanks? Full or empty or somewhere in between? What will you store under the bed, if anything? What will you store under the dinette benches in the rear? All of this can affect tongue weight. Figure maybe 400 lbs as a starting point empty, but again, there are alot of variables.

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

Also, truck bed weight doesn't impact tongue weight right, just GVWR?

If you mean does cargo in the bed figure into maximum tongue weight, no, not directly. It figures into cargo capacity. Cargo capacity is generally the difference between the curb weight and all contents and passengers. But, weight on the hitch does affect the tow.

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

To properly load, do you just estimate weight distribution as you add items in, then check your tongue weight and try to stay within X lbs of when you leveled your WDH?

Generally, you simply keep in mind that if you put something heavy on one end of the trailer, that should be compensated for by putting something heavy on the other end. Weight over the axles doesn't affect that as much. Also, keep in mind that most experts will tell you that the trailer should be slightly tongue heavy. This helps prevent sway. If you want an accurate measurement of the tongue weight, you'll want a scale made for the purpose.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

If you check tongue weight and see that it's spot on, how do you know you haven't just poorly distributed weight, leading to a perfect tongue weight but an uneven trailer?

I don't really know what you mean by "spot on". Spot on to what? The tongue weight is the tongue weight. If you find it exceeding the rating for your tow, you'll have to redistribute items in the trailer.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

I see a few numbers on ETI's specs, but nothing that's obviously "tongue weight."

In the specifications tab of the model information page, tongue weight is listed as "hitch weight".

Originally Posted by SouthernCamper

What's the dry tongue weight on a 21', and how much weight is added when moderately loaded up?

Dry tongue/hitch weight is listed as 360 pounds. That means no fluids and no cargo; it is also for the base trailer with no options.

With any luck, the tongue weight goes up in proportion to the total trailer weight. 360 pounds is about 11% of the empty/base/dry trailer's 3210 pound weight, and according to Escape

21′ Escape, with a dry weight of 3,210lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 4,510lbs.

(assuming typical options, cargo, and fluids)
11% of 4510 pounds would be 506 pounds. If you really pile stuff up front, such as in the (optional) front storage box, it could be higher. If you travel light and keep stuff near the axles, it could be lower.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

11% of 4510 pounds would be 506 pounds. If you really pile stuff up front, such as in the (optional) front storage box, it could be higher. If you travel light and keep stuff near the axles, it could be lower.

Yes, around 500 lbs is close to what some have reported when they actually weighed it.

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Yes, around 500 lbs is close to what some have reported when they actually weighed it.

That seems reasonable considering the Tundra's max tongue weight. I just read that tongue weight includes any cargo load behind the rear axle, which is good to keep in mind.

After reading a bit on my own on how they physically work, in addition to advice here, I do want to do a WDH. How do I choose between ETI's two WDHs with sway control?

Do both need a power jack? (My hesitation is the tailgate dilemma. I mean, it's got to be a joke that it approaches impact driver noise level, right?)

[SouthernCamper]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I don't really know what you mean by "spot on". Spot on to what? The tongue weight is the tongue weight. If you find it exceeding the rating for your tow, you'll have to redistribute items in the trailer.

I guess I was referring to using tongue weight to estimate trailer weight. By spot on I mean you, or someone else, mentioned that tongue weight needs to start relatively stable once your WDH is installed. If, after doing our best to evenly load, tongue weight comes out close to the tongue weight at WDH installation, can you extrapolate loosely the weight of the trailer. Brian pointed out that, yes, you can within reason.

How close should you stay to the tongue weight at WDH installation, and should you adjust it once you've gotten it home and stocked it with its more permanent base load?