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Old 11-06-2015, 12:11 PM   #21
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I can not wait to see the new Nissan Titan diesel XD to debut, this should handle anything Escape makes or can make
The New 2016 Nissan Titan | Nissan USA
Another article, if you missed it. Seems recently updated.

http://www.motortrend.com/new_cars/04/nissan/titan/
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Old 11-06-2015, 04:11 PM   #22
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This thread brings up several great issues with those contemplating a 50. TA, especially the 900 lb pin weight. My truck has a 1400 lb limit and the BlackJack takes 500# away from that. I may carry another 3-400 in the bed. The 5.0 would max me out. Again that Nissan XD with 2000 capacity limit is appealing.
I believe the limiting factor are the axles in most trucks, which may need to be discussed further. If I have 3900# axles is that 7800# total or is the 3900# the limit?
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Old 11-06-2015, 04:52 PM   #23
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This thread brings up several great issues with those contemplating a 50. TA, especially the 900 lb pin weight. My truck has a 1400 lb limit and the BlackJack takes 500# away from that. I may carry another 3-400 in the bed. The 5.0 would max me out. Again that Nissan XD with 2000 capacity limit is appealing.
I believe the limiting factor are the axles in most trucks, which may need to be discussed further. If I have 3900# axles is that 7800# total or is the 3900# the limit?
You have a bit more room than you are calculating, Jim. The hitch weight is only 600 lbs, with most of the weight loading in the rear, so it is not likely to be a heck of a lot more, unless you plan to carry heavy stuff up front. Plus, that is one heck of a lot of weight allowed for added cargo. Not to say you wouldn't exceed your weight limit though.

Don't forget my weight limit was 2,100 on paper, buy only 1,650 after all the packages and options were added.

I was told that the payload on my truck was calculated with full fluids, including fuel, so that does not need to factor into what it can carry.

These are the weights I used to calculate my allowed cargo weight
Tongue weight dry - 600
Tongue weight added - 150 (which I think is a heavy allowance)
Two adults - 360 (and shrinking )
Jasper - 50
Gooseneck hitch - 90
Anderson Ultimate 5th wheel hitch - 40 (with king pin connector)
Tonneau cover - 70
Tool box - 40
Line-X - 20

Total weight - 1420
Allowed weight - 1650

This leaves me 230 lbs of room for cargo. Plenty, as almost everything will be in the trailer.
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Old 11-06-2015, 06:37 PM   #24
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But in the actual world the pin weight exceeded 900 lbs on the TA which would exceed your capacity. Plus it has been countered with a full fresh tank, if you travel empty it would approach 1/2 ton.
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Old 11-06-2015, 06:43 PM   #25
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I am confused, where does the 900 lbs come from, if Escape says 600 lbs. I did allow a total of 750 lbs pin weight in my calculations. Given that most of the added weight would be behind the axles, I think this it would likely be much less.
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Old 11-06-2015, 06:47 PM   #26
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Here http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...gvwr-3875.html
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:31 PM   #27
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I've never gotten close to 900 for the pin weight. With little in the fresh and a lot in the holding tanks at the end of a trip I had 730 lbs for the pin. You can make the pin a lot lighter if you have an empty holding tanks and a full fresh. I don't have the exact numbers handy, but I've also ha the pin down to about 500 lbs weighing before leaving on a trip. So I end up with a wide range of pin weights on a trip, it mostly depends on the water and waste situation.

I can end up with 900 lbs in the bed of the truck by having a heavy pin on the trailer and the roughly 200 lb B&W Patriot hitch. Add in a 2-300 lbs in the bed and 3-350 in the cab, maybe 1500 lbs max.

From what I've read over the years, the deciding factors on your vehicle are the axle/s, wheels, and tires, all 3 have to handle the weight.
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:37 PM   #28
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Bob, how do you measure your pin weight?

Your numbers sound more in line with what I would expect. Larry hasn't been on here for a few months, or I would like to know how he got his pin weight so high.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:46 PM   #29
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I've more or less stayed mainly around 800 lbs- sometimes a bit less sometimes a bit more.
I don't carry water or full tanks often
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:52 PM   #30
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I've more or less stayed mainly around 800 lbs- sometimes a bit less sometimes a bit more.
I don't carry water or full tanks often
I've only checked twice but both times we were around 750 lbs, that was with full water and empty grey and black tanks. (and my wife packs very heavy)

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Old 11-07-2015, 05:55 AM   #31
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Jim, used a local CAT weigh station. Do a 3 point (steer, drive, and trailer axels) reading of the truck and trailer combo. Disconnect the trailer in the parking lot and do a 2nd reading of just the truck. I've only done it a couple times as it costs $20 around here and I'm not really all that concerned. The HD payload gives me 2200 lbs.

I've had as low as 520 when close to empty after dumping and unloading to as high as 730 driving home from a trip before dumping. I suppose one could fill both the gray and black tanks, empty the fresh, nix the bikes on the bike rack, and get pretty much a max pin weight. Then but the bikes back on, empty the grey and black, fill the fresh, and reweigh to get the lightest.

Both Scott and Chapitre run 750-800 lbs with nothing in the holding tanks, I would have expected the front end to be lighter for them but that's not thew case. Larry reported 900 lbs with 1/3 full waste tanks and a full fresh.

I guess the only thing we can say for sure, if everyone is weighing their trailers the same, is that the pin can vary up to 900 lbs. with 750 - 800 being the most common, from our very small sample.

I've not heard of anyone having problems if they are knowingly or unknowingly a bit overloaded.
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:05 AM   #32
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If the wheels are located at the same pivot point, why is the 5.0 that much heavier than the 21?
Other than additional metal frame but less f/g shell? Does not add up. Also are you adding in your hitch weight to your pin weight to get the total impact on GVWR?
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:07 AM   #33
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Thanks for those comments, Bob. Pretty much in line with what I expected.

This 750-800 lb pin weight on a 5th wheel connection, is much better situated for stability being over the rear axle, than some of the hitch weights on the 21 nearing 500 lbs at the rear of the tow vehicle.
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:12 AM   #34
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I agree and that is one of the plus points of the 5.0, but unless a capable truck is purchased all is naught. Not sure about my Ram...
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:12 AM   #35
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If the wheels are located at the same pivot point, why is the 5.0 that much heavier than the 21?
I imagine it is partially to do with a lot more steel in the frame as you mentioned, but while the front lower part of the shell is shorter, it extends 3' - 10" further forward with the loft than to the front of the shell on a 21.
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:21 AM   #36
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I agree and that is one of the plus points of the 5.0, but unless a capable truck is purchased all is naught. Not sure about my Ram...
My point is, that any vehicle that could handle the tongue weight of a 21, would more easily handle the modestly more weight of a 5.0 due to the weight distribution, regardless of vehicle capacity. I am not suggesting that a grossly underrated capacity in either situation is a good thing, but if you are close with a fifth wheel, all is good.

I guess those that feel the need to justify larger tow vehicles, can do so. They won't go wrong with their decision, BUT there is no way in this world I consider my F150 underrated to tow the 5.0 as you suggest it is.
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:27 AM   #37
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Jim,
I'm not saying your vehicle is under rated as you have previously stated you are aware of the limits and can pack accordingly. It's the newbies and others that purchase a new tow vehicle without realizing there are GVWR ratings and that each unit can range from 100-400 more or less in weight. It is through capricious packing one can control the weight and be within the limits. But you and I have seen others with canoes and bikes and 4x4's in the truck bed plus a canopy with ladder racks all towing trailers.
In addition what about those times we bring grandchildren and fill the vehicle with passengers all the while filling up the trailer for 2 weeks use. Too bad scales are not more easily available for weighing. A little extra margin is what I like.
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Old 11-07-2015, 09:00 AM   #38
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If the wheels are located at the same pivot point, why is the 5.0 that much heavier than the 21?
Other than additional metal frame but less f/g shell? Does not add up. Also are you adding in your hitch weight to your pin weight to get the total impact on GVWR?
Just a guess, but the body of the 5.0TA is almost 3' longer forward of the axles then the 21. 17'4" vs about 20' 3".

The hitch is fixed in the truck, it would be accounted for when you weigh the truck separately at the scale. So no, the hitch is not part of the pin weight. You would have to account for it in addition to the pin when researching a truck. In my case I'd add 200 lbs for the B&W, I've heard 60 lbs for the Anderson, don't know about the Reese.
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Old 11-07-2015, 09:24 AM   #39
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Other than additional metal frame but less f/g shell?
18' of cabin on the 21' where the 5.0TA has 20 feet of cabin and yes, I realize it's a loft not a full structure. But the 5.0TA is a lot taller than the 21. So you can add that to your weight measurements.
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Old 11-07-2015, 09:31 AM   #40
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18' of cabin on the 21' where the 5.0TA has 20 feet of cabin and yes, I realize it's a loft not a full structure. But the 5.0TA is a lot taller than the 21. So you can add that to your weight measurements.
Hi: Donna D... Seems most likely next year the weight time to get one will be shorter!!! Alf
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