F150 Advice re: 5.0TA - Page 2 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Towing and Hitching
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-18-2016, 12:21 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Zardoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Marana, Arizona
Trailer: 2018 Airstream Flying Cloud (Escape 19 & 5.0 previously)
Posts: 1,078
[QUOTE=escape artist;152291]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
Hi: Zardoz... Sure could use your wife to talk with mine!!! One exception is the "Platinum" kitchen we just installed. Can't drive a house and live in a vehicle except an RV. Drivin' at the edge ain't all bad!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
Nobody was more surprised than me, Alf A new kitchen with a tug that does the job is a pretty sweet deal too! Don't push your luck
__________________
Rich & Mary
"Everything in moderation, including moderation."
- Oscar Wilde
Zardoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 12:23 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Zardoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Marana, Arizona
Trailer: 2018 Airstream Flying Cloud (Escape 19 & 5.0 previously)
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin View Post
I tend to err on the side of overdoing things.

I'd just ditto everything Jim said. I have the HD payload pkg, adds some weight to the truck and a rougher ride but worth it to me. With the supercab 4x4 and longbed I can do 2200 lbs. Personally I wouldn't go with anything less then 1500 lbs of payload but others have done so with less.

I like the power of the 3.5 EB, absolutely no issues driving through the Rockies, coming down is something this flat lander is working on. No experience with the diesel but I do like the extra power of the 3.5.

Would suggest 6 1/2' bed. I have a trifecta tonneau cover which I like, easy to remove which I do fairly often. White tape on the folded up cover works well for guide marks to back into the hitch as I can't see the hitch with the cover on.

I use a rubber mat for the bed, which is just what I prefer with a Bed Rug on the tailgate.

I use side window visors so I can leave the windows cracked open. Have the sliding rear window but don't use it.

Non powered extended mirrors. Would like to have the power foldup ones, but these will do.

Have and use the bed side fold up steps, most probably won't. Should have gotten the rear step, didn't know how high these newer trucks are.

Aftermarket in bed 7 pin trailer connector.

Nerf bars, stainless steel, at least on the 4x4.
Would you know which package includes the transmission cooler?
__________________
Rich & Mary
"Everything in moderation, including moderation."
- Oscar Wilde
Zardoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 01:13 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
SpokanEscape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Olympia, Washington
Trailer: 2016 Escape 5.0TA has gone to a good home in Manitoba. Now Class B+ owners sadly not an Escape
Posts: 460
Think it was the heavy duty tow package.
We like the tow mirrors and got many of the options others have mentioned.
We have the crew cab with a 5.5 foot bed - we discussed this with Tammy and Reace when we ordered our 5.0TA. Take a peak at theirs when you head up to the factory!
We pick up in mid September
__________________
Jan and Paul
"Le Bon Oeuf"
SpokanEscape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 01:56 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: None, sold my 2014 5.0TA
Posts: 7,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
Would you know which package includes the transmission cooler?
Trailer Tow Pkg
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
padlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 02:10 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbrightsteve View Post
I suggest you get a package that increases your payload to 2000 lbs minimum. My friend refers to trucks with 5.5' beds as motorized wheelbarrows. Get a 6.5' bed and a 36 gallon fuel tank.
I agree with going for the packages which Ford has assembled to make the truck more reliable and durable under heavy use. Remember that many owners of light full-sized pickups use them as big sedans, so most of these trucks (of any brand) never really do any work.

As I recall the F-150 data, even the best package choices which give you over 2000 pounds of payload will slide back under 2000 pounds if you also choose the big fancy 20-inch wheels. Those wheels are fine for this purpose - just keep in mind that you might not be able to quite meet this suggested minimum payload of 2000 pounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
Would you know which package includes the transmission cooler?
I don't offhand, but I wouldn't worry about it. All of these trucks will have a transmission fluid cooler; the appropriate package will have a bigger or better one. That's normally part of a towing package, because it is the multi-ton trailer which really increases load on the drivetrain, not the one ton or less of stuff the truck can carry (for which they make the payload package). With a 5.0TA, I think you want the payload package to handle the pin weight, and the towing package to provide wiring features and to handle the total weight with trailer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin View Post
Why not just get the truck bed that fits the trailer the best?
I agree that it's best to get the bed that fits the job, but a crew cab with a longer box adds up to a lot of truck length. For some people - depending on where they live, drive, and park - it can be too much length.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 02:15 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
The second-generation (or "2017") 5.0TA design has not been seen yet, but given the precedent of the 5.0, 5.0TA, and changes in other models for the second generation, it seems likely that it will be at least a couple inches wider across the front corners, and have slightly higher pin weight than existing trailers. I would make a point of getting the truck box which readily accommodates a hitch well back from the cab; this means the 2-metre (6.5') box and results in basically ordering Jim Bennett's truck, for the reasons he has explained.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 02:55 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
C&G in FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA (Little Elsie) Extensively Personalized
Posts: 2,960
I have towed my 5.0TA with a (2012) 3.5L EcoBoost and now with a 2015 2.7L EcoBoost. Both were super cabs rather than crew cabs. I went that way because I wanted a back seat for the rare times I need to carry passengers (1 time in 3 years with the 2012 F150), and I wanted the 6.5-foot bed, without having a longer tow vehicle that would have resulted with a crew cab with 6.5-foot bed. I do carry my Weber Q (in a large tote, no smells) in the back seat as well as an induction burner when traveling so only one side of rear seat is available, but could put them in the rear portion of the bed behind the hitch if necessary. Both come out upon reaching the campsite.
I did not order the truck with increased cargo capacity as my dealer looked at the numbers and told me I did not need it. I did, however, install a Roadmaster Active Suspension and I do recommend that.
I DO NOT note any loss of power when climbing mountains. The 2.7 is every bit as capable as the 3.5 was. I do, however, like the 2.7's average towing mileage of 15 - 16 mpg better than the 14 mpg at best I got with the 3.5 in the 2012. I also like the optional 35 gallon tank in the 2.7 vs. the 26 gallon tank I had in the 3.5. I should note that when not towing I get 25 mpg on the highway, but when I had the 3.5 the best I ever got was 21 mpg.
I agree with others on the Ford brake controller, although my brake control module failed when I was in Colorado, and the part was back ordered until July 22nd. Durango Ford was gracious enough to take a module off of a new, unsold truck to get me rolling again.
I do recommend Ford's towing mirrors; mine are the manual type. And I do have a low profile toolbox in front of the hitch.
All in all, I liked my 2012 3.5 and I like my 2015 2.7, but I like the 2.7 better because of it's improved fuel mileage and the larger fuel tank which results in fewer fuel stops.
__________________
What a long strange trip it’s been!
C&G in FL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 03:03 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Westcliffe, Colorado
Trailer: 2010 EggCamper (#083); 2017 Escape 21 (#053); 2016 F-150 5.0L FX4
Posts: 1,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Say what?
"BLIS" is the acronym for Ford's blind spot protection package.
War Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 03:53 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Front Range, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA picked up in July 2017.
Posts: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The second-generation (or "2017") 5.0TA design has not been seen yet, but given the precedent of the 5.0, 5.0TA, and changes in other models for the second generation, it seems likely that it will be at least a couple inches wider across the front corners, and have slightly higher pin weight than existing trailers. I would make a point of getting the truck box which readily accommodates a hitch well back from the cab; this means the 2-metre (6.5') box and results in basically ordering Jim Bennett's truck, for the reasons he has explained.
I would be surprised if the new mold somehow precluded the use of the F 150 SCREW Cab with the short bed. That seems to be the most popular model that Ford sells. If buying a new truck, I would go for the longer bed but since I already have a short bed I would EXPECT that I could use it to tow a new 5.0TA. The trailer body could be made wider with a slightly larger angle from the corners back. Just guessing though.
SFDavis50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 04:35 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFDavis50 View Post
I would be surprised if the new mold somehow precluded the use of the F 150 SCREW Cab with the short bed. That seems to be the most popular model that Ford sells.
You can handle more trailer width with a short box by shifting the hitch further back, so a slightly wider trailer doesn't completely preclude the use of a "short box" (which could mean anything in today's truck market, but means about five feet for an F-150)... it just makes the pin weight harder to handle and the trailer less stable.

Reace's personal truck is an F-150 with a 5.5' box; he tows a 5.0TA by mounting the hitch further back than normal... so even the current 5.0TA is too wide for a Ford short-box without resorting to this non-standard pin placement. There is at least one current 5.0TA towed by a Frontier with a 5-foot box, with the pin well behind the axle line for clearance, so there are precedents for this approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFDavis50 View Post
If buying a new truck, I would go for the longer bed but since I already have a short bed I would EXPECT that I could use it to tow a new 5.0TA. The trailer body could be made wider with a slightly larger angle from the corners back. Just guessing though.
The first generation 5.0TA could be a lot narrower at the front corners, too, but it's not.

There's no taper at all in the current 5.0TA (or original 5.0) loft area. The current loft area is slightly narrower than the rear part of the body only because its widest point extends the line of the body at a level well above the waistline, where the body has reduced in width by a couple of inches due to the inward slope of the walls. If the same design is used with the vertical walls of the second generation, the loft area will be the full 88" (2.2 m) width of the rest of the body.

Introducing a taper (narrowing toward the front as seen from above) of the loft area seems like a good idea to me, but I have no idea if Reace is actually doing that. I suggested it in the last round - the 2013/2014 replacement of the 5.0 with the 5.0TA - but Reace chose to go another direction...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
How about putting the front corners the same width apart as the original 5.0, then angling the side walls out toward the full width, with smooth transition (not a sharp bend) to the parallel sides before the end of the over-truck section? This would give almost 90 degree turning for cab-to-hitch distances that allow 90 degrees with an original, and the same turning angle as the original for those with shorter cab-to-hitch distances.
There's more, but it's getting into the change to the 5.0TA design, rather than choosing an F-150. I only mentioned the potential width increase as a "heads-up", since it could be relevant to truck selection and might not have occurred to people.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 06:07 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Front Range, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA picked up in July 2017.
Posts: 523
The first generation 5.0TA could be a lot narrower at the front corners, too, but it's not.

Introducing a taper (narrowing toward the front as seen from above) of the loft area seems like a good idea to me, but I have no idea if Reace is actually doing that. I suggested it in the last round - the 2013/2014 replacement of the 5.0 with the 5.0TA - but Reace chose to go another direction...(The above is a quote)

I like the 5.0TA because it seems very streamlined, especially compared to the "beluga" nose of the Scamp 5th wheel. Still, a slightly more pointed nose with a larger taper angle would cause the airstream to push against the front awning windows at speed and a side taper (somewhat like the roof line) would cause the airstream to separate and burble along the body and not be trying to peel open the frameless windows. I really like those windows but I do worry about how they will operate after 30,000 miles of travel and/or a few accidental left opens.

In soaring people sometimes tape "yaw strings" short pieces of brightly colored yarn to the wings to visualize the air flow at different speeds. Laminar flow is good as it increases lift and the control surfaces work better but it increases parasitic drag. Not sure good laminar flow is wanted in a trailer. Also, aircraft fly faster and the drag increases with the speed; a top speed of 70mph really isn't all that fast.

I assume the mold is already designed though so this is just musing.
SFDavis50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2016, 07:07 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFDavis50 View Post
I like the 5.0TA because it seems very streamlined, especially compared to the "beluga" nose of the Scamp 5th wheel. Still, a slightly more pointed nose with a larger taper angle would cause the airstream to push against the front awning windows at speed and a side taper (somewhat like the roof line) would cause the airstream to separate and burble along the body and not be trying to peel open the frameless windows.
There's no taper at all now, but otherwise I agree: there are multiple aerodynamic consequences of nose shape. It's the clearance consequence that's of more immediate concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFDavis50 View Post
I assume the mold is already designed though so this is just musing.
Yes, the design is presumably set, but we don't know what it is. I only mentioned the potential width issue because it may require an adjustment in hitch setup, or truck choice... or just owner expectations of turn angle available.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 12:53 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Front Range, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA picked up in July 2017.
Posts: 523
[QUOTE=Brian B-P;152356]There's no taper at all now, but otherwise I agree: there are multiple aerodynamic consequences of nose shape. It's the clearance consequence that's of more immediate concern.

It just seems like the clearance consequence could be solved or greatly improved with a more aerodynamic nose section. That would give more room for the spray foam without losing inside space and move the hitch closer to the front of the box.

OK, I finally went out and looked at my 2010 F 150 SCREW with the 5.5' box and I see the problem. I never looked at it with regard to a fifth wheel hitch as I have just started researching the purchase of an RV. The axle is approx. 26 inches back from the front of the box, maybe 27 inches from the SCREW cab. The hitch would be at least 4 inches aft of the axle centerline.

My understanding is that the ideal placement of a fifth wheel hitch should be approx. 2.9 inches ahead of the axle. I don't think it is much of a concern as the trailer is much lighter than the camper/3 horse trailer my friends pull with their
F 350 but I would still be concerned about hitch weight and trailer loading. Their trailer has a very pointed nose but it still has a queen size bed up there.
SFDavis50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 11:42 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFDavis50 View Post
OK, I finally went out and looked at my 2010 F 150 SCREW with the 5.5' box and I see the problem. I never looked at it with regard to a fifth wheel hitch as I have just started researching the purchase of an RV. The axle is approx. 26 inches back from the front of the box, maybe 27 inches from the SCREW cab. The hitch would be at least 4 inches aft of the axle centerline.

My understanding is that the ideal placement of a fifth wheel hitch should be approx. 2.9 inches ahead of the axle. I don't think it is much of a concern as the trailer is much lighter than the camper/3 horse trailer my friends pull with their F 350 but I would still be concerned about hitch weight and trailer loading. Their trailer has a very pointed nose but it still has a queen size bed up there.
I think that's a good summary: the hitch will be further back than ideal, but acceptable for the relatively light Escape. In choosing a truck, you need understand the compromise between clearance to the cab, placement of the hitch relative to the axle, and availability of hitch mounting hardware. An F-150 (any cab) with 5.5' box works, but for the purpose of towing the trailer, the 6.5' box works better.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 02:31 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: None, sold my 2014 5.0TA
Posts: 7,124
FWIW...

When I installed the B&W hitch, it required bolting the rails to the frame. The holes in the frame were already there. They do show that you can weld it instead of using the holes but the position for the center of the king pin does not change, it's 1 1/2" forward of the axle center.

If I add it up right, no matter which F150 bed you have, the center of the king pin should be 42 5/16" from the rear edge of the bed.

The B&W is adjustable, 2" either way from there.

Think this would put the default king pin center 22 9/16" from the front of the short bed.

Keep in mind the front of the trailer is back a bit from the center of the kingpin, maybe 6-8"

No idea about non rail mounts or custom installs.
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
padlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 04:41 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin View Post
When I installed the B&W hitch, it required bolting the rails to the frame. The holes in the frame were already there. They do show that you can weld it instead of using the holes but the position for the center of the king pin does not change, it's 1 1/2" forward of the axle center.
B&W has two types of mounting kits to support the bed floor rails from the frame:
  • kits with part codes starting with RVK are "quick install" - no holes to drill or welding, just bolt in
  • kits with part codes starting with RVR have simpler brackets - less customized to the truck model - and usually require at least drilling holes in the frame
The only B&W kit I see for an F-150 is the RVR3201, which uses one existing hole per bracket (there are four brackets) but requires drilling one more hole per bracket. It says it fits the 2004-2014 F-150, not the current style, but that matches Bob's 2012 truck. Bob - did you use a different B&W kit, or a different brand? Since these rails are "universal" (interchangeable between brands), it isn't necessary to use the same brand of hitch and rails.

Curt does have a custom-fit frame bracket kit for the current F-150 (16442), and for the previous two styles of F-150.

There is definitely less selection of mounting kits for the lighter-duty trucks (F-150, but also GM 1500, Ram 1500, any Toyota or Nissan) than for the heavier pickups... and as Bob said, if installed as the manufacturer intends they all end up with the hitch in about the same place - too close to the cab for an Escape 5.0TA. That means you need:
  • non-standard installation, or
  • adjustability in the hitch, or
  • a sliding hitch feature.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 05:53 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
escape artist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,035
Hi: All... Seems to me that the most effective cure to the short box 5th. wh. issue is the pin extender. PopUp Industries RV5 fifth wheel 10" Extended king pin... avail through http://www.tweetys.com Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
escape artist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 08:14 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Front Range, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA picked up in July 2017.
Posts: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by escape artist View Post
Hi: All... Seems to me that the most effective cure to the short box 5th. wh. issue is the pin extender. PopUp Industries RV5 fifth wheel 10" Extended king pin... avail through RV Parts, Accessories and Supplies In The USA by Tweetys Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
Yes but it is $379.00 plus more weight on the truck. That brings everything up near the cost of the Demco Auto Slide (gold standard?) which is also very heavy but probably would work better.

I am thinking that the 5.0TA is light enough that the basic Reece or Demco without rails and mounted far enough aft of the short box axle is still the better tradeoff as there is less hitch weight. The hitch is mounted on a wide footprint so much of the weight is still forward of the axle. And I think there are already a good number of owners using this type of setup on their 5.5' trucks.

Simplify and add lightness.
SFDavis50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 08:39 PM   #39
Site Team
 
rbryan4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
An F-150 (any cab) with 5.5' box works, but for the purpose of towing the trailer, the 6.5' box works better.

I would only add that it's better for a 5th wheel - not a bumper pull.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
rbryan4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2016, 09:31 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: None, sold my 2014 5.0TA
Posts: 7,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Bob - did you use a different B&W kit, or a different brand?

I used the kit you listed, had to drill one hole in the frame for each bracket. Think the rails were one item, RVR3200, the appropriate brackets for ones truck were another, RVR3201 in my case.
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
padlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2023 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.