F150 Advice re: 5.0TA - Page 4 - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 07-18-2016, 06:07 PM   #31
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The first generation 5.0TA could be a lot narrower at the front corners, too, but it's not.

Introducing a taper (narrowing toward the front as seen from above) of the loft area seems like a good idea to me, but I have no idea if Reace is actually doing that. I suggested it in the last round - the 2013/2014 replacement of the 5.0 with the 5.0TA - but Reace chose to go another direction...(The above is a quote)

I like the 5.0TA because it seems very streamlined, especially compared to the "beluga" nose of the Scamp 5th wheel. Still, a slightly more pointed nose with a larger taper angle would cause the airstream to push against the front awning windows at speed and a side taper (somewhat like the roof line) would cause the airstream to separate and burble along the body and not be trying to peel open the frameless windows. I really like those windows but I do worry about how they will operate after 30,000 miles of travel and/or a few accidental left opens.

In soaring people sometimes tape "yaw strings" short pieces of brightly colored yarn to the wings to visualize the air flow at different speeds. Laminar flow is good as it increases lift and the control surfaces work better but it increases parasitic drag. Not sure good laminar flow is wanted in a trailer. Also, aircraft fly faster and the drag increases with the speed; a top speed of 70mph really isn't all that fast.

I assume the mold is already designed though so this is just musing.
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Old 07-18-2016, 07:07 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFDavis50 View Post
I like the 5.0TA because it seems very streamlined, especially compared to the "beluga" nose of the Scamp 5th wheel. Still, a slightly more pointed nose with a larger taper angle would cause the airstream to push against the front awning windows at speed and a side taper (somewhat like the roof line) would cause the airstream to separate and burble along the body and not be trying to peel open the frameless windows.
There's no taper at all now, but otherwise I agree: there are multiple aerodynamic consequences of nose shape. It's the clearance consequence that's of more immediate concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFDavis50 View Post
I assume the mold is already designed though so this is just musing.
Yes, the design is presumably set, but we don't know what it is. I only mentioned the potential width issue because it may require an adjustment in hitch setup, or truck choice... or just owner expectations of turn angle available.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:53 AM   #33
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[QUOTE=Brian B-P;152356]There's no taper at all now, but otherwise I agree: there are multiple aerodynamic consequences of nose shape. It's the clearance consequence that's of more immediate concern.

It just seems like the clearance consequence could be solved or greatly improved with a more aerodynamic nose section. That would give more room for the spray foam without losing inside space and move the hitch closer to the front of the box.

OK, I finally went out and looked at my 2010 F 150 SCREW with the 5.5' box and I see the problem. I never looked at it with regard to a fifth wheel hitch as I have just started researching the purchase of an RV. The axle is approx. 26 inches back from the front of the box, maybe 27 inches from the SCREW cab. The hitch would be at least 4 inches aft of the axle centerline.

My understanding is that the ideal placement of a fifth wheel hitch should be approx. 2.9 inches ahead of the axle. I don't think it is much of a concern as the trailer is much lighter than the camper/3 horse trailer my friends pull with their
F 350 but I would still be concerned about hitch weight and trailer loading. Their trailer has a very pointed nose but it still has a queen size bed up there.
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Old 07-19-2016, 11:42 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by SFDavis50 View Post
OK, I finally went out and looked at my 2010 F 150 SCREW with the 5.5' box and I see the problem. I never looked at it with regard to a fifth wheel hitch as I have just started researching the purchase of an RV. The axle is approx. 26 inches back from the front of the box, maybe 27 inches from the SCREW cab. The hitch would be at least 4 inches aft of the axle centerline.

My understanding is that the ideal placement of a fifth wheel hitch should be approx. 2.9 inches ahead of the axle. I don't think it is much of a concern as the trailer is much lighter than the camper/3 horse trailer my friends pull with their F 350 but I would still be concerned about hitch weight and trailer loading. Their trailer has a very pointed nose but it still has a queen size bed up there.
I think that's a good summary: the hitch will be further back than ideal, but acceptable for the relatively light Escape. In choosing a truck, you need understand the compromise between clearance to the cab, placement of the hitch relative to the axle, and availability of hitch mounting hardware. An F-150 (any cab) with 5.5' box works, but for the purpose of towing the trailer, the 6.5' box works better.
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Old 07-19-2016, 02:31 PM   #35
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FWIW...

When I installed the B&W hitch, it required bolting the rails to the frame. The holes in the frame were already there. They do show that you can weld it instead of using the holes but the position for the center of the king pin does not change, it's 1 1/2" forward of the axle center.

If I add it up right, no matter which F150 bed you have, the center of the king pin should be 42 5/16" from the rear edge of the bed.

The B&W is adjustable, 2" either way from there.

Think this would put the default king pin center 22 9/16" from the front of the short bed.

Keep in mind the front of the trailer is back a bit from the center of the kingpin, maybe 6-8"

No idea about non rail mounts or custom installs.
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:41 PM   #36
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When I installed the B&W hitch, it required bolting the rails to the frame. The holes in the frame were already there. They do show that you can weld it instead of using the holes but the position for the center of the king pin does not change, it's 1 1/2" forward of the axle center.
B&W has two types of mounting kits to support the bed floor rails from the frame:
  • kits with part codes starting with RVK are "quick install" - no holes to drill or welding, just bolt in
  • kits with part codes starting with RVR have simpler brackets - less customized to the truck model - and usually require at least drilling holes in the frame
The only B&W kit I see for an F-150 is the RVR3201, which uses one existing hole per bracket (there are four brackets) but requires drilling one more hole per bracket. It says it fits the 2004-2014 F-150, not the current style, but that matches Bob's 2012 truck. Bob - did you use a different B&W kit, or a different brand? Since these rails are "universal" (interchangeable between brands), it isn't necessary to use the same brand of hitch and rails.

Curt does have a custom-fit frame bracket kit for the current F-150 (16442), and for the previous two styles of F-150.

There is definitely less selection of mounting kits for the lighter-duty trucks (F-150, but also GM 1500, Ram 1500, any Toyota or Nissan) than for the heavier pickups... and as Bob said, if installed as the manufacturer intends they all end up with the hitch in about the same place - too close to the cab for an Escape 5.0TA. That means you need:
  • non-standard installation, or
  • adjustability in the hitch, or
  • a sliding hitch feature.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:53 PM   #37
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Hi: All... Seems to me that the most effective cure to the short box 5th. wh. issue is the pin extender. PopUp Industries RV5 fifth wheel 10" Extended king pin... avail through http://www.tweetys.com Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:14 PM   #38
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Hi: All... Seems to me that the most effective cure to the short box 5th. wh. issue is the pin extender. PopUp Industries RV5 fifth wheel 10" Extended king pin... avail through RV Parts, Accessories and Supplies In The USA by Tweetys Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
Yes but it is $379.00 plus more weight on the truck. That brings everything up near the cost of the Demco Auto Slide (gold standard?) which is also very heavy but probably would work better.

I am thinking that the 5.0TA is light enough that the basic Reece or Demco without rails and mounted far enough aft of the short box axle is still the better tradeoff as there is less hitch weight. The hitch is mounted on a wide footprint so much of the weight is still forward of the axle. And I think there are already a good number of owners using this type of setup on their 5.5' trucks.

Simplify and add lightness.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:39 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
An F-150 (any cab) with 5.5' box works, but for the purpose of towing the trailer, the 6.5' box works better.

I would only add that it's better for a 5th wheel - not a bumper pull.


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Old 07-19-2016, 09:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Bob - did you use a different B&W kit, or a different brand?

I used the kit you listed, had to drill one hole in the frame for each bracket. Think the rails were one item, RVR3200, the appropriate brackets for ones truck were another, RVR3201 in my case.
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