F150 Advice re: 5.0TA

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by titanizer

$470 option on my 4WD Lariat w/tow pkg(not max tow).

Could only get differential options by selecting the 3.5EB on the "Build & Price F150" website. Hope I can, but ultimately, Ford will decide. Thanks!

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

Could only get differential options by selecting the 3.5EB on the "Build & Price F150" website. Hope I can, but ultimately, Ford will decide. Thanks!

Yeah, Ford's options lists on their build and price section of the website are confusing- and incomplete. You can indeed get the higher axle ratios with the 2.7L Ecoboost. I'd deal with a knowledgeable dealer - directly.

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[Brian B-P]

The table of towing specs (at Ford Canada, and at Ford U.S.) shows three values of final drive ratio (or "axle ratio") for the 2.7L EcoBoost: 3.31, 3.55, and 3.73. I don't know why they would show all of them if only one is available.

That towing capacity table only shows values for truck combinations which exist, so most of the cells are empty. Even within the variant for which a 2.7L is available, not all combinations of cab, box length, 2-versus-4-wheel drive and axle ratio have a listed capacity.

For instance, a short-box SuperCab 2.7 4X2 gets a 3.31 or 3.73, but not a 3.55; the long-box SuperCab 2.7 4X4 gets a 3.55 or 3.73, but not a 3.31. Effectively, in this case, Ford is saying you must have at least 12,700 lb GCWR with that combination of cab and box if 4X4 (so at least 3.55 ratio), but the same combination of cab and box if 4X2 is lighter so it only needs at least 12,500 lb GCWR (so the 3.31 ratio is okay)... and if you are getting an optional axle ratio you go all the way to 3.73 in either 4X2 or 4X4.

The same pattern of axle ratios for the 2.7L EcoBoost (and likely the other engines - I didn't look through them all) occurs with each cab and box combination: a base ratio (which is either 3.31 or 3.55, depending on cab, box, and 4X2 vs 4X4), and the 3.73 option.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

Could only get differential options by selecting the 3.5EB on the "Build & Price F150" website.

What cab size, box length, and drive (4X2 versus 4X4) combination are you trying to build, Rich?

For an example, in just the first page of the Build & Price tool on the U.S. website I picked SuperCab, 6-1/2' box, 2.7L EcoBoost, and 4X2 (not moving the towing and payload sliders), and it let me pick either 3.31 (non-limited slip or electronic locking) or 3.73 (electronic locking only). I changed to 4X4 and it let me pick either 3.55 (non-limited slip or electronic locking) or 3.73 (electronic locking only). In all cases, I was offered XL, XLT, and Lariat trims. That's just what the towing table would suggest... but these are only two of several cab/box/drive combinations for the 2.7L EcoBoost.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I'd deal with a knowledgeable dealer - directly.

Having never met a knowledgeable dealer, and having no problem selecting a different axle ratio with the build tool on the website, I'd stay home until I was at a full set of specs, then ask the sales people what it would cost and if they would suggest any variations. Maybe that's just me...

[rbryan4]

Well, I know of at least one knowledgeable dealer in Austin TX, where I bought my truck. They know the F150 thoroughly.

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[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Well, I know of at least one knowledgeable dealer in Austin TX, where I bought my truck. They know the F150 thoroughly.

There's the problem - you have to know them.

I'm sure there are lots of knowledgeable and honest Ford sales people here in the Edmonton area (where and F-150 is probably the most common car driven), but until you have searched and tried them out, who knows what you'll get? I had a Ford Focus for several years, I included the Focus in my shopping for that car's replacement, and I still have a motorhome with a Ford F53 chassis, so I've dealt with Ford dealers... and technical competence so far has be hard to find. This isn't a criticism of Ford - the situation is the same with other brands, probably all of them.

There was a discussion of fuel tank size earlier, and I dropped by a Ford dealership to check it out. The sales guy didn't even know that there were two fuel tank sizes for the F-150... and this is a dealership that has been selling Fords for 80 years and has several hundred vehicles in stock, a large portion of which are F-150's. I haven't yet had the audacity to say to a sales person: "is there a more experienced sales person with better product knowledge available to help me instead"?

[rbryan4]

Wow, if he didn't know about the different fuel tanks, that'd be a pretty strong hint to find another dealer. Kind of amusing what passes for a truck salesman these days.

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[padlin]

When I bought mine the no one at the dealer knew you could get an F150 with a heavy duty payload package and how other options change when you get it. After I walked the salesman and the manager through what it was and where I got the info (Ford website) they called someone at Ford who confirmed it was an option and whatever other info they needed.
It helps if you do your own homework as you can't tell how informed the sales folks are.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Wow, if he didn't know about the different fuel tanks, that'd be a pretty strong hint to find another dealer. Kind of amusing what passes for a truck salesman these days.

To be fair, I think that dealership sensibly orders all their F-150s with the largest tank available for the wheelbase (only the shortest F-150 combination can't fit the larger tank), so it's not a choice which would ordinarily come up... but yes, you can sell anything while knowing almost nothing.

[cpaharley2008]

Seems like today there are no longer true automobile salesmen but people selling products for which they have no personal knowledge nor use there of. Perhaps it is a result of dealerships no longer offering demo's to the sales people, but 50 years ago most sales people could tell you all about their product because they drove it for 6 months before getting another model.Now, they get the book or go on line and have to research your question. You can do that from the comfort of your home. Plus you can get 3 different answers to the same question if you go to 3 dealers today, that was rare years ago. Maybe it is too may models with too many variables/combos. Henry Ford had it right, one color, one model.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

What cab size, box length, and drive (4X2 versus 4X4) combination are you trying to build, Rich?

For an example, in just the first page of the Build & Price tool on the U.S. website I picked SuperCab, 6-1/2' box, 2.7L EcoBoost, and 4X2 (not moving the towing and payload sliders), and it let me pick either 3.31 (non-limited slip or electronic locking) or 3.73 (electronic locking only). I changed to 4X4 and it let me pick either 3.55 (non-limited slip or electronic locking) or 3.73 (electronic locking only). In all cases, I was offered XL, XLT, and Lariat trims. That's just what the towing table would suggest... but these are only two of several cab/box/drive combinations for the 2.7L EcoBoost.

Hey Brian, thanks for your comments and research on my behalf.
I'm going for a Super Crew, 6.5' box, 4x2.

[Brian B-P]

I think there are few factors here...
Necessity: Before web-based information distribution, someone needed to be an expert in the product line... but not any more.
How long people stay in jobs: There was a time when someone who had been in any but a trivial job for only five years was relatively junior, and the greater experience and expertise of more senior workers was valued. Now, if you have been with the same company for five years many people will question why you haven't been advancing, and many people think after a few weeks in a job they should be paid as fully-competent professionals. Most auto sales people don't even drive the brand of vehicle they sell, because they change jobs so frequently that it would be too often to buy new cars... and they have no commitment to their employers.
Availability of information: When the sales person was the only one who had the magic options book, if he said the 2.7L only came with one axle ratio, we accepted that. Now, we check the website and call him on the error. They may not be less competent now, it's just that we can catch them.

Yes, there is a lot of complexity now, although there has been a lot of complexity in trucks for a long time. Ford offered lots of colour choice for the Model T, then cut it down to just black for about a decade... and while still building the Model T had to return to a reasonable range of choice to be competitive.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

Any sage advice to offer on the differential ratio? Thanks?

I have the 3.55 axle. All I can say is I just spent the last 2 weeks towing my MUCH heavier temp fifth wheel through a many mountain ranges. It had plenty of power with that axle on any hill we encountered.

I must also say I just love the tow/haul mode in this truck. It does a fantastic job with gear selection both going up, and descending long hills.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

2.7L "EcoDeisel" Jim?

Who knew?

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Hush you! You are not allowed to dig up old screw ups.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I have the 3.55 axle. All I can say is I just spent the last 2 weeks towing my MUCH heavier temp fifth wheel through a many mountain ranges. It had plenty of power with that axle on any hill we encountered.

I must also say I just love the tow/haul mode in this truck. It does a fantastic job with gear selection both going up, and descending long hills.

Hush you! You are not allowed to dig up old screw ups.

Thanks. Was at ETI yesterday. Wife gave a green light. Calling Sarah tomorrow to hold the late September date. Looks like the first trip will be south which is okay.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

Thanks. Was at ETI yesterday. Wife gave a green light. Calling Sarah tomorrow to hold the late September date. Looks like the first trip will be south which is okay.

That sounds great, congrats!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

I'm going for a Super Crew, 6.5' box, 4x2.

Okay, I was close...

In the towing and payload tables, that's the 156.8" wheelbase. Jim Bennett explained that he went with the 3.5L EcoBoost (rather than the 2.7L) because that let him get the SuperCrew and 6.5' box. Sure enough, you can't get that cab and box combination with 4X4 and the 2.7L... but going with 4X2 fixes that.

The tables and configurator allow the 3.31 and 3.73 ratios with that truck... so the 3.55 as a compromise is out, but you do still have a choice.

Okay, 2.7L EcoBoost owners: when you are towing at your highway speed on level ground, does the truck use the transmission's top gear? If it doesn't with the 3.31 (or 3.55 for 4X4) axle ratio, and it does with the 3.73, then you might actually save fuel with the shorter 3.73 ratio. If the engine can pull the taller ratio in top gear, then a shorter ratio will increase engine speed and likely cost fuel. At lower speeds, a different axle ratio really just means shifting at a different speed. With "only" six speeds (the industry standard is now 8 speeds), those shift points might matter to both performance and economy.

[Brian B-P]

I mentioned the bigger fuel tank...
Optioning out the perfect version of a SuperCrew 6-1/2' box 2.7L on the U.S website, with no non-functional (for fifth-wheel towing) extras included, I ran into the fuel tank: the bigger tank is US$395 - which seems unreasonably expensive as an upgrade anyway - but even worse it triggers the 101A package, so it actually drives up the price of the truck by about US$2,000. Well, at least that gets you the cool Pro Trailer Backup Assist system, as well as a bunch of power and electronic toys.

My total net price came to US$36,525 (with 3.31) or US$36,775 (with 3.73 electronic locking). You could even chose the 3.31 with electronic locking. I'm guessing most people will pick more appearance and comfort items (this combination is an XL with steel wheels), so their MSRP will be higher. I didn't even include a bedliner, only because there is a choice (Ford drop-in, Ford spray-in, or either as aftermarket) with a variety of costs.

[Brian B-P]

Also, for those of us in Canada, I noticed that while the website works the same way and the choices are basically the same, the packages are a little different... so be careful with comparisons across the border. It even appears that the larger fuel tank is not an option (perhaps standard with longer wheelbase), so the local guy who had not heard of the choice may not have been so far off... and sure enough the online capacities show that the 136 L (36 US gal) tank comes with all 4X4 variants except the too-short regular cab with 6.5' box, while the 87 L (23 US gal) tank comes in all other variants - no choice.

So here if you pick the 4X2 to save cost and weight, you can't have the properly sized fuel tank, and if you pick the 4X4 to get that fuel tank, you can't have the 2.7L with the SuperCrew and 6.5' box.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Also, for those of us in Canada, I noticed that while the website works the same way and the choices are basically the same, the packages are a little different... so be careful with comparisons across the border. It even appears that the larger fuel tank is not an option (perhaps standard with longer wheelbase), so the local guy who had not heard of the choice may not have been so far off... and sure enough the online capacities show that the 136 L (36 US gal) tank comes with all 4X4 variants except the too-short regular cab with 6.5' box, while the 87 L (23 US gal) tank comes in all other variants - no choice.

So here if you pick the 4X2 to save cost and weight, you can't have the properly sized fuel tank, and if you pick the 4X4 to get that fuel tank, you can't have the 2.7L with the SuperCrew and 6.5' box.

On the Ford website I used, the 36 gal. fuel tank is available on the Lariat 4x2 with a 2.7EB.