Frontal Area

[GerriJ]

Originally Posted by thoer

and

I often wonder how many things in the manuals are written by actual engineers and how many by corporate lawyers....

I agree. Not much bugs me more than these auto maker ads that profess to have tons of ground shaking torque, the ability to out tow any competitor, even pull a boat the size of the Titanic, complete with 8x10 glossy photos and dozens of lines of fact and figures then add a weasel clause at the end that says if you tow something with a frontal area the size of two sheets of plywood you may experience performance issues. Maybe they mean you should limit your towing to a ski-doo trailer loaded with a ton of lead ingots.

I am happy to read in one of AZjacks posts that at least one auto maker has included instruments to monitor transmission performance (maybe others have but none I have ever owned had this feature). That should be a given for any towing package. Then you would know if something is up and adjust your driving accordingly. If the engine or trans starts to heat up, you can take it easy for a while, stop and have a cup of tea, take a nap etc. Beats trading in a perfectly good vehicle or leaving your trailer at home because the frontal area is slightly over spec.
Mark

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

For what it's worth OP, my extremely amateur experience shows me that my Frontier pulls my 19' like a champ.

That is useful, especially if taken in context. Towing at sustained high speed and having no performance or overheating issues is good evidence that frontal area is not a problem with this particular combination. On the other hand, someone who never gets over 80 km/h (50 mph) and only takes very short trips won't have a concern with frontal area pulling just about any trailer.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by GerriJ

I am happy to read in one of AZjacks posts that at least one auto maker has included instruments to monitor transmission performance (maybe others have but none I have ever owned had this feature). That should be a given for any towing package. Then you would know if something is up and adjust your driving accordingly. If the engine or trans starts to heat up, you can take it easy for a while, stop and have a cup of tea, take a nap etc.

I suspect that every modern automatic transmission has temperature sensors, and that the transmission control computer (or ECU) will at least alarm - and possibly signal the engine ECU to limit power - when the temperature gets too high. They don't display the temperature - perhaps because most drivers would have no idea what to do about the number - but in many vehicles the value can be displayed by an OBD meter, such as a ScanGauge.

My motorhome's chassis is a Ford F53, which is basically an F-550 Super Duty truck without a body. It has a transmission temperature gauge... which has never shown anything of concern, perhaps because the chassis is properly equipped to work at its rated load limit, or because the long mountain grades I have climbed and extended periods of high speed I have driven were not in hot weather.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by GerriJ

I am happy to read in one of AZjacks posts that at least one auto maker has included instruments to monitor transmission performance (maybe others have but none I have ever owned had this feature).
Mark

My RAV4 V6 Sport has a transmission warning light.
I know because I managed to get it lit up by towing up the Coquihalla past the snowshed at 90 kph in third gear.
For all the concerns about frontal area and transmissions, I have had my RAV serviced religiously at the dealer and they catch every detail. They've never mentioned discoloured transmission fluid, which is better than a gauge or a light as an indicator.

[Brian B-P]

I agree that the ads are often ridiculous and annoying. Some are obvious exaggeration (the one pulling a ship out of the water), others just depict the same abuse which would get your warranty claim denied (bouncing over rocks offroad), and some are deceptive. In the last category, I particularly note the GM ad that shows the pickup towing a shipping container on a gooseneck trailer - that's quite possible, but they don't point out that the container is almost certainly empty or close to it, rather than loaded to the 45 tons or so that such a container can carry.

[gbaglo]

I've never found beautiful women draped all over my RAV4 either.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Jfocallag

I need to learn how to drive an automatic in the meantime. I have been driving a manual for the last 20 years.

It took my left leg a long time to stop looking for the clutch pedal

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Can't blame it all on the lawyers.
We also have a penchant for taking recommendations as regulations, writ in stone. The word "may" becomes "must".

Truth!

This forum lately seems to be getting more focused on technical issues, analyzing everything to the nth degree, rather that focusing on the reason that most of use wanted a trailer in the first place.......to go camping.

I get it that for some trying to define every last aspect of something is done for fun, but I also know it also scares away others.

As long as it is not a safety issue (as Robert alluded to up a bit), I personally think that though this issue is definitely a factor in towing, it would seem that all these facts that folks are coming up with from manufactures, are purely speculative at best. For anyone here to claim that they have it all figured out, and what would be best for others, is not right.

'bout time to put this to bed, and dream about camping.

[thoer]

...or migrate into talk of how wide beer bellies can get and still get thru our Escape's doors.

And keep Alf's tag line in mind.

[J Mac]

BUT, lets not get back to that riveting discussion on poutine !!!

[thoer]

Originally Posted by J Mac

BUT, lets not get back to that riveting discussion on poutine !!!

OK I'm fascinated - what IS the best way to rivet poutine?

[J Mac]

through the frontal area no doubt!

[hotfishtacos]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Truth!

This forum lately seems to be getting more focused on technical issues, analyzing everything to the nth degree, rather that focusing on the reason that most of use wanted a trailer in the first place.......to go camping.

I get it that for some trying to define every last aspect of something is done for fun, but I also know it also scares away others.

As long as it is not a safety issue (as Robert alluded to up a bit), I personally think that though this issue is definitely a factor in towing, it would seem that all these facts that folks are coming up with from manufactures, are purely speculative at best. For anyone here to claim that they have it all figured out, and what would be best for others, is not right.

'bout time to put this to bed, and dream about camping.

I see a lot of that coming from the Northern folks...maybe the weather??...

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by hotfishtacos

I see a lot of that coming from the Northern folks...maybe the weather??...

Not exactly prime trailer camping weather around here, Steve. Good thing there are lots of other activities to partake in, though in the deep cold we do tend to look for things to do, in order amuse ourselves.

[Rossue]

Maybe this will help that pesky speculation; a very thorough guide called How To Tow Safely by the RV Consumer Group whose endorsement ETI uses on their website for each trailer.

http://www.slaga.net/RV/How%20to%20Tow-version%202.pdf

Page 19: "When towing any trailer the overall safety depends upon the following factors in order of importance":

1. Wheelbase
2. Sail area
3. Hitch configuration
4. Trailer design
5. Balance of trailer from loading
6. Highway stability of tow vehicle when not towing
7. Total Weight of trailer
8. Pulling capacity of tow vehicle

[gbaglo]

Moved the slightly off-topic food posts to own thread.

[Nindy]

Interesting. So much to think about. I will be towing my 17B with a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel in mid-March. Will make a not-so-direct fun trip from Chilliwack to Missouri, taking whatever route suits the weather at the time. I will give a report on how we do! The Jeep should be a beast pulling the trailer. I already get 30 mpg on the highway and 26-27 combined.

[Jim Bennett]

Nindy, your Jeep will tow your trailer with no problems at all. That is a nice powerful engine, that still gets decent full economy, that you have in it.

[bdornbush]

Originally Posted by GerriJ

A trans temp gauge would help monitor the situation.

I guess my 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee has a built-in trans temp gauge. I haven't seen any mention of what is a good or bad temp while towing. Does anyone have knowledge about how to look at trans temps while towing?

[padlin]

Originally Posted by bdornbush

Does anyone have knowledge about how to look at trans temps while towing?

My temp seems to run about 100 over ambient once it warms up. Found this chart a few years back.