Fuel efficient tow vehicle.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Steve R

I assumed one would tow a trailer with an automatic transmission. Is a manual transmission a viable alternative?

Yes... or it was, when vehicles were available with manual transmissions that were properly prepared for heavy-duty use.

Originally Posted by maurerl

... the "weak link" isn't the manual transmission itself, it's the clutch.

I believe that's true. The weakness in automatics is overheating, which is not much of an issue with a manual.

Also, the assumption is that some drivers are incompetent and will excessively slip the clutch, destroying it. With an automatic, the driver has less opportunity to mess up, so the manufacturer can better predict what it will withstand.

Originally Posted by maurerl

Begs the question -- why wouldn't manufacturers just use or make available beefier clutches, if that's the case? That's a rhetorical question -- there's not enough demand for manuals anymore so manufacturer's don't make them available any more.

I agree that's the situation. "One ton" pickups were commonly manuals, but now you can't buy one from Ford or GM - Ram still offers a 6-speed manual as an option.

In case the obvious hasn't occurred to someone, the really big rigs (class 8 trucks, tractor-trailer combinations, or "18-wheelers") are mostly still equipped with manual transmissions. Even that is changing, but yes you can tow 40 tons of trailer with a manual transmission and manually-operated clutch.

Originally Posted by maurerl

Anyway, apparently manual transmission is NOT a feasible alternative, at least for trailers bigger/heavier than Bolers.

As Donna pointed out, not all Bolers were less-than-one-ton 13-footers. Mine is double the weight of a typical 13-foot.

It is only viable for most travel trailers if you disregard the manufacturer's rating, and drive competently enough to justify that decision.

[gbaglo]

Owned a Subaru with a manual for 13 years, so I have experience towing with a manual trans.
You can creep with an automatic. One foot on the brake and the other on the gas. Easier than one foot on the brake and gas and the other on the clutch.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

2014 Ford F150 4x4 Crewcab, 2.7L Ecoboost V6, Escape 5.0TA, 11 MPG uphill, 20+MPG downhill Averages 16mpg towing (21.2 non-towing) And, I typically drive around 57mph towing.

Check your displacement Donna. I believe yours is a 3.5L Ecoboost. The 2.7L was introduced with the all Aluminum body in 2015, and is designed for the lighter truck.

Still, pretty impressive towing mileage for a 4x4 and 3.5L. I think the reduced frontal area (and therefore reduced wind resistance) of the 5.0TA is really helping your mileage.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I think the reduced frontal area (and therefore reduced wind resistance) of the 5.0TA is really helping your mileage.

The 5.0TA is the width of the 21' and taller than any other Escape, so it has the most frontal area of them all. It might have an aerodynamic advantage anyway, because it is tucked up to the truck (although there are still significant gap between tailgate and lower trailer body and between cab and upper trailer body) compared to a conventional trailer.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The 5.0TA is the width of the 21' and taller than any other Escape, so it has the most frontal area of them all. It might have an aerodynamic advantage anyway, because it is tucked up to the truck (although there are still significant gap between tailgate and lower trailer body and between cab and upper trailer body) compared to a conventional trailer.

Well yes, it is taller, but the effective frontal area is reduced by the fact that its "tucked up" to the truck as you say. Towing my 19, all that air that goes over the cab spills down and hits the blunt face of the trailer almost directly. In the 5.0TA, the air doesn't have as much chance to hit the face of the trailer, but instead hits the loft and continues upward. I'll bet if we could see both in a wind tunnel we'd see quite a difference.

[gbaglo]

Which one of you is bringing a wind-tunnel to the next Escape Rally?

[Steve R]

Based on the above posts, it looks like the best mpg I can expect when pulling my 17b, is around 15-16 mpg, perhaps with a RAV 4 or Ford Ranger. When thinking about mpg, I'm curious if anyone would recommend any other tow vehicles I should consider, besides those mentioned above.

I might note I bought a new Prius last year, and would like to buy a used tow vehicle. Thanks.

[padlin]

Judging by the admittedly imperfect splattered bug pattern. The 5.0TA loft area and about about a foot on either side of the lower recessed front was subject to the wrath of the Midwest grasshopper season. About 25% is spared.

Is west coast gas the same as east coast gas? I get 13 mph towing with my 2012 4x4 3.5 EB, 17 not. Seems to be even worse in the winter. Still, these numbers are about 25% better then my GMC 5.3 got.

[Rossue]

Earlier versions of the 5.3 may not have had the "engine management" that MyronL & I have. Under light load conditions it runs on 4 cylinders- even while towing. The other especially beneficial aspect is the significant engine braking(something you wont get with an aspirated...aka turbo engine). Brakes on large vehicle are expensive to replace. Factor that when you consider mpg, especially with a heavier trailer.

[barry]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The 5.0TA is the width of the 21' ...........

This isn't true.

The width of my 5.0 Classic is only 72" at the front loft yet the back of the trailer is 78" (same as the 17' it's based on). The front of the Classic 5.0's are tapered in at the front loft area and the same applies to the 5.0 TA as the front part of the trailer is based on the original 5.0 but has been widened and heightened to match the proportions of the TA.

Barry

[Fox hunt]

Originally Posted by Steve R

Based on the above posts, it looks like the best mpg I can expect when pulling my 17b, is around 15-16 mpg, perhaps with a RAV 4 or Ford Ranger. When thinking about mpg, I'm curious if anyone would recommend any other tow vehicles I should consider, besides those mentioned above.

I might note I bought a new Prius last year, and would like to buy a used tow vehicle. Thanks.

I tow my 17 b with a highlander does a very good job and a pleasant car to drive when not towing

[cpaharley2008]

A pickup truck with a light cap on the rear would create less drag with a conventional trailer, would it not?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

A pickup truck with a light cap on the rear would create less drag with a conventional trailer, would it not?

I think it would help the aerodynamics a little, Jim. If the cap were tall enough in the back and sloped upwards to direct some air over the top of the trailer, that would probably be even better.

[lefttee]

I think the forum documents the reality of "two foot itis." Will your TV for the 17b manage the 19 or 21 you just have to have in 3-4 years?

[sturski]

Originally Posted by Steve R

Maurerl: your post raises a different question: I assumed one would tow a trailer with an automatic transmission. Is a manual transmission a viable alternative? Thanks.

I'm towing an Escape 19 with a 6sp manual Tacoma with 4.0L and a towing package. Works fine for me.

I live in the mountains and have yet to see an automatic that knows what gear I want to be in.

The truck has 102k on it and will likely need a clutch at some point, it's been trouble free, so far. In my experience, heavy duty clutches are always available as a replacement and are always the last clutch I buy for a vehicle. I've never replaced 2.

[steve dunham]

When I was looking for a new tow vehicle, fuel efficency was far down my list of necessary attributes .Towing capacity ,payload ,braking , handling, ride ,comfort ETC were more important than fuel economy . I would rather loose a little gas mileage than being exhausted at the end of the day from white knuckle towing . I have often questioned the logic of buying a 35k + Escape 21 ft and then towing it with an inadequate vehicle just to gain 1 MPG. Gaining better fuel econom at the cost of safety is not a fair trade IMHO. I tow with a 1/2 ton fullsize pickup truck with a 5.7 liter V8 , +WDH and find it adequate for towing my trailer.
Everyone has a different comfort level , so what you value may differ

[currinh]

Originally Posted by Steve R

Maurerl: your post raises a different question: I assumed one would tow a trailer with an automatic transmission. Is a manual transmission a viable alternative? Thanks.

We have a 2013 Nissan Xterra. Had to threaten the dealer with going to Toyota for him to order a manual Xterra for us. They are rare, but we demanded a manual transmission. Have always had manuals and find them better than any automatic we've seen.

It works fine towing our 19. Don't know that it helps with mileage, we get between 13 and 15 mpg, most likely in the middle of this at 14. We generally travel between 55 and 60 mph and do see a difference in gas mileage between 55 and 60.

A manual has advantages. You know what gear you're in, if it's wrong it's your own fault. They shift when you ask, not before or after. Much better for getting out of a snow bank. I find them better off road. Prevent theft, it's getting to the point crooks don't know how to drive a manual. Etc.

So, yes a manual is a valid alternative, at least for us.

Thanks.

[gbaglo]

I wonder what the hit will be when you go to sell or trade a manual transmission vehicle. Sort of like a trailer without a bath.

[currinh]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I wonder what the hit will be when you go to sell or trade a manual transmission vehicle. Sort of like a trailer without a bath.

Ours will be a rare and valuable item. So many people will be searching for such an Xterra we'll be able to sell it for a mint.

No, really. We buy vehicles for the long term, 10-15 years. The resale value isn't a consideration for us.

You might be right though. It sure would limit the number of buyers. There will be a group looking specifically for a manual though. It'd likely be harder to find that buyer, so harder to sell or trade.

[gbaglo]

I bought a base Datsun pickup once. I even spurned the radio. Lost a lot of money on that one.