Getting worried. The new 5TA is 1100 pounds heavier. Ok with Tacoma?? - Page 4 - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:24 PM   #31
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Let me start by thanking everyone who has contributed an opinion (or even 2 or 3).

To summarize - some points are not relevant in my case and some are very critical.

Not: Transmission shifting 'cause I have (or will soon) a manual.

Not: Max 5500 GVWR because the Tacoma will do 6700. Plenty of buffer here.

Very: Payload: As onetim, DonW and others have pointed out, I'm getting close to the maximum. No buffer if I take all my toys and fresh water. ( And for the record, no A.C., generator or high wattage appliances for my adventures. But a small watercraft - 100 lbs max - is a must. But I digress...)

Very: General tow-ability. Is a 5th. wheel less likely to have a Tail-Wagging-The-Dog syndrome? Do the double axles add directional stability?

The compromise if needed: Downsize to the 19. I'm the one with "biggeritis", Susannah, on the other hand, has a bad case of "smalleritis". We have 5 days left to decide, and with luck someone with experience pulling 4500-5000 with a V6 will share.

Thanks again,
Alan
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:57 PM   #32
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Hi: alanmalk... At risk of being "Burned at the stake", I'm the one towing (Item # 97) in the "Trailer weights in the real world" thread on the other forum.
Our 5.0 had a heavier pin weight due to several factors. WE have a 8" thick memory foam full queen size mattress. We carry 2 bag chairs next to the bed, and a tarp on the mattress with 2 zero gravity chairs on it. A full compliment of 2 weeks clothes, cases of beverages, pantry full of food, 2& 1/2 gal jug of well water for drinking.
The fresh water tank was full+ hot water heater and a third passenger in the truck.
We don't always travel this way and though I'm somewhat concerned about the new 5.0TA don't feel we're crowding the limits of our truck.
I can't believe anything more than a "Half Ton" pickup is required to pull an Escape 5.0/5.0TA.
We have had 6 wonder filled years of travel with this 5.0 and look forward to many more with the new 5.0TA.
Remember that the tug is only part of the equation and a new one will be required long before another trailer. Alf
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:26 PM   #33
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Alan, speaking from experience of towing many trailers, boats, and now my 5th wheel....

You will not have a better tow experience ever. The only time I have got a hint of "fishyness" (sorry for that), was when I was between two tractor trailer rigs in Atlanta Georgia... that freaked me out. but because the weight is on the axle and not to the rear of it, the trailer just follows beautifully.

I have often read in many RV publications that load distribution is the key. You could actually lighten the pin weight by loading more aft in the trailer. You numbers are right on... I would not worry at all. As for double axles, I see better weight distribution. I cannot speak for better tracking, as all of the trailer I have ever towed have been single axles.

It took getting my trailer and having it on my truck to relax. I was apprehensive about the whole process. But I am very glad I went with my 5.0. It is the best towing experience I have ever had. I tow with a 2012 Dodge Ram V6. I know it’s there on hills, but have caught myself speeding with it a time or two (not proud of this....). I just didn’t realize I was going that fast. The truck has always handle just beautifully.

My fear, and I pray it never happens, is a blowout with a lifted trailer on a single axle. This is always in the back of my mind when I tow... I plan for the worst, but always expect the best.

Todd
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:50 PM   #34
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Hello Alf,
You may borrow my fire extinguisher at any time! I note with some relief that you are leaning towards the answer I was looking for. (Not that my personal bias will help at all when driving up - or down - Loveland Pass towing 5000 pounds.)

Sorry, but I couldn't find your post on the fiberglass forum. Found the thread but #97 wasn't yours.

Could you tell me some of the specifics of your truck? I'm going to guess that the combination of a Classic 5.0 and a full-size "half-ton" pickup is an easy winner. It was an unfortunate series of events that led me to making the Tacoma purchase - bad timing being one. Wrecked my 4-Runner before the actual weight of the 5.0TA was announced. Assumed, incorrectly, that the extra 6 inches in width and "8 inches length" were going to be trivial. Whoops...! Regardless of which size trailer I end up with, I am going to enjoy the Tacoma with the off-road package for "off roading" better than a full size 1/2 ton, so I really can't complain too much.

And for the record, I realize there is some adjustment of the final pin weight to be obtained by moving the "big box of firewood" to the back of the trailer.

Thanks,
Alan
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Old 05-20-2014, 02:01 PM   #35
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Hello Itoddday,
Looks like I'm a bit out of sync with my replies. Apologies; I'm at work and in theory doing something useful for the company.

I'm glad to hear that you endorse the 5-th. wheel tow over the back-of-the-truck tow. I'm pretty certain with the medium (73") bed and smaller cab, I can have the hitch mounted at or even slightly ahead of the axle. But not having the experience that most of readers have, I will of course be relying on the installer and Reece's suggestions as to the proper placement.

"Apprehensive" is a good description!

--
Alan

(Now I REALLY must get back to work...)
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Old 05-20-2014, 02:25 PM   #36
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Hi: alanmalk... Work is useful for those who have to do it!!! My reference was to post #5 in this thread.
Best towing is from the axle, not the bumper...so a more positive tow for a 5th. wh. I will be reporting on the new 5.0TA after we take delivery on June 3rd.
Our Nissan Frontier is a 2010 4X4 Crew Cab Long Bed(6'1") 4 Ltr. V6 w/ 50,000 miles on it. Had it since new. I selected this truck over a Taco. as the rear springs are more substantial IMHO. Most Toyota Taco's need helpers or air bags to stop the rear droop. Our Frontier squats a mere 1" when the trailer is hooked up. I tow in the 60-65mph range and on anything more than flat land lock out of OD. I usually average 2000rpm's + or - 200 which gives me good power and 16-18 mpg US.
Sorry to hear about your previous vehicle. We too used to tow fire wood but the local goober mints changed all that. It's now "Ill Eagle". Alf
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Old 05-20-2014, 04:22 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk View Post
Less than a week to go until the new 2015 production schedule comes out and I'm getting nervous. The new 5TA has put on 1100 pounds, up from 4400 to 5500 in its new format. My tow vehicle, when it arrives, is going to be a Tacoma, V6, manual transmission, off-road suspension and 73" bed (medium size). I ordered the truck before the new specs were announced and a bigger vehicle is not an option. Total payload on the Tacoma is listed around 1450 pounds. Adding up two passengers and a full tank of gas to be around 450 pounds then adding the theoretical king pin weight of around 900 pounds, for a total of 1350 - doesn't leave much room for error.

Thanks,
Alan
I think you will find that the actual payload for your Tacoma will be less than 1450 lbs. I have a 2013 DCSB 4X4 Tacoma w/ auto, and my payload is around 1075 lbs. Yours may be a bit more if it is not a 4X4 and either the regular or access cab.
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:06 PM   #38
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I don't know about the Taco with standard transmission but I do have a Ford Ranger and the towing capacity is less with a standard than an automatic. Best make sure the standard transmission Taco specs are the ones you are using in case there is a difference.
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:33 PM   #39
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This is the 2013 Tacoma, 4WD Double Cab LB V6 AT info.

What is important is that the rear axle with the trailer attached loaded
and all occupants, fluids etc. in the truck when the rear axle is driven
onto the scale the weight must be equal to or less then 3110 LBS.



Weight Information
Gross Axle Wt Rating - Front (lbs)2755
Gross Combined Wt Rating (lbs)8100
Curb Weight - Rear (lbs)1899
Gross Axle Wt Rating - Rear (lbs)3110
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Cap (lbs)5500
Curb Weight - Front (lbs)2321
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:37 PM   #40
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I think you will find that towing a Classic 5.0 or the new 5.0 TA with a compact pickup such as a Tacoma or Frontier is always going to be a bit of a juggle but it's no different than towing a 17' with a Rav 4 ...... and plenty are doing that successfully. Those with the Rav 4/17' combo are having to watch how they load the trailer to keep their hitch weight in check as well as having to watch what they pack to keep within the 3500 lb tow rating.

I tow a Classic 5.0 with a Ranger and it tows beautifully plus I get between 18 and 20 MPG (imp.) depending on the terrain. I have plenty of power for my driving style but I do have to watch the pin weight even though the truck has a 5400 lb tow rating (over rated in my opinion). I travel with my fresh water tank full, two bikes on the back and all my heavy stuff over or behind the axle to keep my pin weight in line. I have only light items such as clothes and paper products in front of the axle and travel with the grey and black water tanks as empty as possible as they are in front of the axle. By loading the trailer like this I end up with a pin weight in the 650 lb range and an axle weight of 2900 lbs. which gives me a 18 to 19% pin weight which is within specs for a 5.0. I have weighed the trailer 3 times and always get similar results.

As for the 5.0 TA having a lot higher pin weight than the Classic this may not be the case once the trailer is packed for camping (the Classic axle is well back in the trailer compared to the TA's axles). Virtually all the large storage space, such as pantry, storage under the kitchen counter is over the axles on the TA which is not the case with the Classic. In the Classic the kitchen is just in front of the axle and the pantry is well forward of the axle. If you load up the pantry in the Classic you have to put something of equal weight in the storage area under the dinette or you risk having a pin weight putting you over the G.V.W. of the truck. In the TA loading up the pantry or the cupboards under the kitchen area will have very little or no consequences to the pin weight since they are right over the axle.

It should be easy enough to load a TA for camping and keep the pin weight at the apparent dry weight of 750 lbs. A trailer loaded for camping at 4300 lbs, which is 1000 lbs of stuff over the advertised dry weight and 750 lb pin weight would be 17.4% pin weight which is within the 15 to 25% suggested for 5th wheels. For reference, Escape suggests, on there Frequently Asked Questions page, that a 5.0 TA loaded for camping will travel at 3920 lbs.


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