Gooseneck Adaptor on 5.0 or 5.0TA?

[SWCO]

Does anyone have experience installing an adaptor on an Escape 5.0 (single or tandem axle) to allow use on a gooseneck hitch equipped truck? If a cushioned style adaptor is used it seems like it should not damage the trailer.

My truck already has a B&W flush mount turnover ball in the bed, and keeping rails out of the bed has a lot of appeal.

Most styles are overbuilt for these weight trailers (cut and pasted from an ad):

"Convert-A-Ball Gooseneck and Fifth Wheel Adapters - CAB-C5G
Use your gooseneck hitch to tow your 5th-wheel trailer by hooking up with this adjustable coupler adapter. Poly cushions absorb shock for a smooth ride. Adjustable height fits multiple applications. 20,000-lb GTW.

Features:
5th-Wheel-to-gooseneck adapter lets you tow your 5th-wheel trailer with your gooseneck hitch
Coupler bolts to your trailer's king pin and connects to gooseneck ball
Interior polyurethane cushions act as shock absorbers for smooth, safe ride
Reduce bounce and vibration
Minimize wear and tear on both your trailer and tow vehicle
Adjustable height fits multiple applications
Fail-safe king pin adapter has built-in, positive-lock feature to secure trailer to hitch ball
Steel extension handle lets you slide bar to lock or unlock coupler from outside the truck bed
Acts as a latch, keeping adapter secure
Can be replaced with a padlock (sold separately) for greater security
Durable, cast steel construction
Rust-resistant powder coat finish
Safety chains included
Made in the USA"

Thanks, Bob in SWCO

[D&R_SC]

Originally Posted by SWCO

Does anyone have experience installing an adaptor on an Escape 5.0 (single or tandem axle) to allow use on a gooseneck hitch equipped truck? If a cushioned style adaptor is used it seems like it should not damage the trailer.

My truck already has a B&W flush mount turnover ball in the bed, and keeping rails out of the bed has a lot of appeal.

We have the B&W Turnover Ball Gooseneck hitch in our F150 and use the Andersen 3220 Ultimate Gooseneck Connection, which we like very much. It's lightweight, 35lbs, easy to remove and replace, and tows smooth and quiet. Check it out at https://andersenhitches.com/Products...k-version.aspx.

[SWCO]

The Anderson 3220 looks like a nice lightweight set up, quick to move in and out of the truck bed, but I was interested if anyone had experience with something like the Anderson 3100, which converts the trailer to a gooseneck hitch without needing to raise the hitch height in the bed of the truck...wondering if they towed well and if ETI has any objection to modifying the trailer hitch in this way.

https://andersenhitches.com/Products...h-adapter.aspx

Thanks.

[Mike Lewis]

Will someone familiar with the subject please explain why there are two different systems-- gooseneck and fifth-wheel, for hitching a trailer to a pickup truck bed? I have to admit it took me a while to realize that the 5.0 TA's hitch (for instance) and the gooseneck cattle trailers I pulled when I was a kid have two different hitch systems. It isn't obvious why there should be, for a pickup.

[Donna D.]

Last I heard.. gooseneck trailers were not allowed to be manufactured in Canada, and that's the reason ETI 5ers are the standard 5th wheel. Can anyone enlighten us?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Last I heard.. gooseneck trailers were not allowed to be manufactured in Canada, and that's the reason ETI 5ers are the standard 5th wheel. Can anyone enlighten us?

There is no rule here against gooseneck trailers; they are common here for equipment haulers, just as in the U.S. A gooseneck trailer has a long "neck" extending from the body of the trailer, over the truck to the coupling head (of any type).
There is no rule here against ball-in-bed or ball-on-deck style hitching systems. As in the U.S., they are particularly common for gooseneck-shaped trailers (although many gooseneck trailers use fifth-wheel hitches) and livestock trailers. This leads to the current silliness of calling any ball hitch in the truck bed a "gooseneck", even if the trailer isn't a goose necked design.

Years ago, someone asked Reace (not in the forum) about a ball hitch for the 5.0, and according to their post in this forum he reportedly replied that it was not allowed under the regulations he had to follow; that may even have been you, Donna. I later found that the CSA standard for recreational trailers (Z240) has sections for travel trailers (towed "behind" a vehicle) and for fifth-wheel trailers, but not for any other style. The end result is that while there is no specific prohibition against using a ball hitch over the axle (often called a "gooseneck" even though the trailer isn't a gooseneck design), it could be argued that an Escape 5.0 or 5.0TA with a ball hitch wouldn't specifically comply with CSA Z240 because the trailer is neither "behind" the tow vehicle nor equipped with a fifth-wheel hitch. This appears to be just a clumsy lack of rigorous classification by CSA.

This CSA standard applies to recreational (travel) trailers manufactured for sale as new vehicles in Canada, and some provinces have requirements for this standard as well. It does not apply to any other type of trailer, or what you can do with your own trailer, or what you can operate on the road.

I am not aware of any rule in any province (or federally in Canada) which requires a recreational trailer to have or not have any specific type of hitch; that makes sense, because whether you sleep in the trailer or not has nothing to do with towing it. Certainly, systems such as the Andersen Ultimate are not prohibited by motor vehicle or highway traffic regulations for non-commercial vehicles... travel trailer or not. There are rules for hitches of course: the usual strength tests (such as VESC V-5 or SAE J604), equipment such as safety chains, etc.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Will someone familiar with the subject please explain why there are two different systems-- gooseneck and fifth-wheel, for hitching a trailer to a pickup truck bed?

Given that members in this forum have expressed strong preferences for both styles, I think a universal agreement on type would be difficult to reach - that alone is a reason for both types.

Ball hitches (or "gooseneck") are the logically simplest, lightest, and most compact solution to the hitching requirement. Unfortunately, they do require a safety chain or cable in most places.
Fifth-wheel hitches are the only reasonable hitch system for very heavy semi-trailers (with tens of tons on the hitch). They also allow hitching by backing in, instead of lowering a huge trailer accurately onto a ball.
Pickups and trailers of a few tons are in the in-between world, where both hitch systems are viable and both are common.

Just to complicate things a bit more, ball hitches in truck bed or on truck decks are usually right on the bed or deck floor, so the trailer needs a long post reaching down to it while still reaching over box sides or allowing relative tilt between the vehicles. The Andersen Ultimate is simply a ball hitch, but mounted up at the height of a typical fifth-wheel hitch (and there are other variations of this idea). For truck/trailer compatibility, that essentially adds another variation (although gooseneck trailers routinely have a substantial vertical adjustment so many they could accommodate both a ball at the pickup bed floor height and a ball at the Andersen Ultimate height.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SWCO

Does anyone have experience installing an adaptor on an Escape 5.0 (single or tandem axle) to allow use on a gooseneck hitch equipped truck?
...
"Convert-A-Ball Gooseneck and Fifth Wheel Adapters - CAB-C5G

Sort of.
One member of this forum took a 5.0 to Europe. He could not use the North American standard hitch system there (nothing unsafe about it, just not locally approved), so he converted the trailer (permanently, not bolt-on) to a system which extended the pinbox down to the truck bed floor level, where there was a ball. He initially had a problem with "bucking" as the trailer frame flexed due to the leverage of the extended pinbox; he later reinforced the trailer frame and it worked out well in the end. I have (just anecdotally) heard of similar problems (flex or even frame failure) with large recreational fifth-wheels (the more common size at several tons and 30+ feet) using the type of adapter listed above.

There is also the irritation of the requirement to have the truck box empty down the middle so trailer tongue/coupler clears as the truck is backed under the trailer; with the raised ball of the Andersen Ultimate (or other similar systems) cargo can be carried in the box up to ball height, without having to move it for hitching and unhitching.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Fifth-wheel hitches are the only reasonable hitch system for very heavy semi-trailers (with tens of tons on the hitch). They also allow hitching by backing in, instead of lowering a huge trailer accurately onto a ball.

I bet this is why: the fifth-wheel system is easier to use. I didn't think about lowering a gooseneck trailer onto the ball.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by SWCO

The Anderson 3220 looks like a nice lightweight set up, quick to move in and out of the truck bed, but I was interested if anyone had experience with something like the Anderson 3100, which converts the trailer to a gooseneck hitch without needing to raise the hitch height in the bed of the truck...wondering if they towed well and if ETI has any objection to modifying the trailer hitch in this way.



https://andersenhitches.com/Products...h-adapter.aspx



Thanks.

I'm using the Anderson Ultimate rail mount. It attaches to truck using rails which attach to truck frame. It's like like the ball mounted type except attaches to rail with 4 pins. As far as towing, it works great. Does not make any clunking noises. Easy to hook up, and I'm new to towing a trailer. On my last outing I had a situation where I couldn't back straight in, truck at about 30 degree angle to trailer. No problem unhitching or hitching. Can you do that with a conventional 5th wheel hitch? Light weight, solid connection to trailer, easy removal, adjustability both fore and aft as well as height (don't even need tools) and rated for trailers almost 4 times as heavy as a 5.0, so what's not to like.
There is no modification you have to do to trailer, the adapter simply bolts to pin. Never used a conventional 5th wheel hitch but can't imagine it could be any easier or covienient.
Can you tell I like this hitch?


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[DavidF]

Why is this in the for sale section?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by DavidF

Why is this in the for sale section?

It's not... now. It''s in the proper Towing and Hitching section. Maybe a moderator moved it?

[SWCO]

I initially and mistakenly posted it in the for sale section, I was in that section when I hit the post new thread selection, not realizing it would end up under classifieds.

An editor promptly moved it to where I should have initially been posted and I think that is where it is now.

Thanks for all the responses. Bob in SW CO

[cpaharley2008]

We operate behind the scenes....

[phalaney]

Lots of good discussion on ease of operation, ride, etc, but not on safety. Could it be that Escape wants a conventional 5th wheel hook up because it constrains side to side sway - at least when only the TV or trailer are subject to those forces? I realize that that might also give a dippier ride. As you can see, I'm no expert - just aksin'.....

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

I bet this is why: the fifth-wheel system is easier to use. I didn't think about lowering a gooseneck trailer onto the ball.

I have used both, and they are equally as easy to use. With the conventional fifth wheel hitch, you have to first ensure your trailer is at (or near) the right height before backing in, and with the ball you have to make sure you are close to alignment (withing 2" with the Andersen), then with both raise the landing gear. Easy peasy either way.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by phalaney

Lots of good discussion on ease of operation, ride, etc, but not on safety. Could it be that Escape wants a conventional 5th wheel hook up because it constrains side to side sway - at least when only the TV or trailer are subject to those forces?

An interesting thought, but not likely. Traditional fifth-wheel (or pin-and-plate) hitches did not tilt side-to-side, and those on commercial trucks still don't... which makes for some interesting twisted trailers (especially flat decks) on uneven ground. That's hard on a small truck, so modern recreational fifth-wheel hitches do tilt side-to-side. Although the fifth-wheel tilt is limited and often constrained by rubber, I don't think controlling trailer roll with the truck is important, or even necessarily desirable.

If the "sway" concern is about yawing - rotation about the vertical axis - I don't think the difference in friction between a pin-and-plate and a ball-and-socket is going to make much difference.

A lot of substantial trailers, particularly gooseneck trailers in agriculture, are towed with ball hitches over the axle. I've never heard of a stability concern with any of them.

[phalaney]

"That's hard on a small truck, so modern recreational fifth-wheel hitches do tilt side-to-side. "

Thx Brian P. I've looked at quite a few "modern" hitches on line and none of them looked like they moved from side to side. Nor did my 22 year old K2500 hitch. But I'm not arguing. I have certainly not kept up, it must just be the way they are shown on line.

And FYI folks, as almost everyone but me already knows, Escape is fine with Anderson hitches. I checked....

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by phalaney

I've looked at quite a few "modern" hitches on line and none of them looked like they moved from side to side...
... it must just be the way they are shown on line.

There is a lot of hardware in some designs, so it's hard to see what they do, and some don't tilt very much. In simpler or more straightforward designs (such as the Curt E16 and A15 and B&W Companion/Patriot) the pivot is a visible bolt or shaft under the head, but more complex designs it's buried inside (e.g. in the Curt Q series).

The Curt Q series is interesting, in a discussion of ball hitches as an alternative to fifth-wheels, because it uses a spherical bearing - a ball - as the pivot. Since the ball joint rotates in all axes, it then needs a lot of additional hardware to keep it from turning (around the pin axis) and to keep it from tilting too far side-to-side, plus the whole plate and latching jaw assembly.

[SWCO]

Apparently an adapter that attaches to the 5.0 trailer king pin and drops down to a 2 5/16 ball mounted just above the truck bed voids the Escape Warranty. The online PDF version of the Owners Manual states:

"• Do not add any type of adapter to the fifth wheel king pin, such as a goose neck adapter. Lengthening the fifth wheel hitch by means of an adapter will transfer greater loads to the chassis, possibly more than the chassis is designed for, and could result in structural damage. Damage that is a direct result of the
use of such an adapter is not covered by Escape Trailer Industries warranty."

This rules out the style I was most interested in, like the Andersen Ranch Hitch Adaptor #3100. https://andersenhitches.com/Products...h-adapter.aspx

The Andersen Ultimate #3220 also seems to fit this definition (any type of adaptor), but since it is shorter it should not exert as much leverage or stress on the trailer frame. Could void the warranty (regarding the frame), costs more, and takes up more room in the truck bed, but probably safer than a longer extension on the king pin.
Bob in SWCO