I hate to stir up this hornets' nest - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Towing and Hitching
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-11-2013, 09:10 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
nealmccarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sequim, Washington, Washington
Trailer: "Teachers' Pet" our 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 185
I hate to stir up this hornets' nest

I am curious about the factors that go into determining vehicle tow limits. We have a Toyota Sienna with the tow package & 3500 lb limit. We had the Timbren suspension enhancement system installed, thus considerably beefing up the load capacity of the rear springs. So I'm wondering what percentage the tow limit is based on suspension versus engine torque etc?

It has always seemed odd that different vehicles having the same engine have such varied limits.




Timbren Suspension Enhancement System
Timbren Suspension Enhancement System
Timbren Suspension Enhancement System
Timbren Suspension Enhancement System
__________________
Neal & Sharon

A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
nealmccarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 09:45 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Wetaskiwin, Alberta
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21
Posts: 90
Well one would also have to consider how rigid the chassis is, what the transmission can handle, how much mass the brakes were meant to handle, how strong the attachment points for the hitch are, etc., etc., etc..
bpjod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 10:32 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
The tow capacity is set by the manufacturer and normally it can not be increased due to aftermarket add-ons. Your axle ratings will be the limiting factor, not suspension.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 10:37 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Trailer: 2015 5.0 TA, 2014- RAM HEMI 8 spd
Posts: 447
Beefing up the Suspension will not increase the load or towing capacity. The main benefit to beefing up your suspension is it will limit sag when hauling near load capacity. I did a lot of research on this subject as I was considering hauling the new 5.0 with a Nissan Frontier. I finally concluded that it would best for me to upgrade to a RAM 1500, which I did, ouch $$$.
Scuba55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 12:51 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: N/A, Indiana
Trailer: Escape
Posts: 976
SJ23 Tech Tip A09 - Tow Vehicle Considerations
A comprehensive description.
__________________
"Never argue with an idiot. They only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin
Jubal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 01:16 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: _, Texas
Trailer: Escape 5.0 SA
Posts: 544
Hi Neal,
Some of us can't stay away from the hornets nest. While in tow mode, do you plan to follow the idiots or lead a pack of maniacs? Take into consideration steep grades, adequate engine and transmission cooling, and your combined passenger & extra stuff weight.
daveandsandyclink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 01:53 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21--FOR SALE
Posts: 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubal View Post
Jubal, thanks for the link to that excellent article. Next May we will start towing an Escape 19 with a 2011 4Runner, often in the mountains, and reading that made me glad we opted to stay at about 75% of the Toyota's rated towing capacity.
__________________
Brent and Cheryl.
Catchlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 04:46 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Changing or adding to the springs will not change the Gross Axle Weight Rating, because you don't know what - other than springs - may be the limiting factor for the axle. It might be the axle beam strength, hubs, bearings, brakes, springs, tires, or the frame... for instance.

Is the towing limit due to that axle capacity (GAWR), or something else? There are many factors, and there's no definitive way to know which one was the most limiting for any specific vehicle. In some cases it's easy to make a good guess, but that's only if the trailer limit happens to equal the difference between curb weight and GCWR, which is not likely the case if it happens to be nice round number like 3500 pounds.


Now, if you want to speculate...
I tow with a Sienna. My guess is that the 3500 limit is chosen for three reasons:
  1. it is the Class 2 limit, so it's a good description of the rough size of trailers that the vehicle is intended to handle;
  2. with an assumed 10% tongue weight and a desire to limit hitch weight to 350 pounds for structural or handling reasons, the result is a 3500 pound trailer; and,
  3. in a minivan, people are likely to tow with passengers and unlikely to check the total weight (GCWR), so some trailer weight should be picked that still allows for passengers and luggage while staying within GCWR, and 3500 pounds is a reasonable number.

I'm not disagreeing with your use of the Timbren blocks, Neal, but if you have the stock tires for the base second-generation Sienna, your GAWR-rear is limited by the tires.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 10:50 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
nealmccarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sequim, Washington, Washington
Trailer: "Teachers' Pet" our 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveandsandyclink View Post
Hi Neal,
Some of us can't stay away from the hornets nest. While in tow mode, do you plan to follow the idiots or lead a pack of maniacs? Take into consideration steep grades, adequate engine and transmission cooling, and your combined passenger & extra stuff weight.
Most likely I'll be following the idiots.
__________________
Neal & Sharon

A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
nealmccarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 05:54 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
I tend to pass the idiots (and responsible, yet slow drivers) if possible, and give way to the maniacs to pass. Most times, I seem to find a good pack willing to travel at the speed I like, which is maintaining the speed limit, or just a bit beyond.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 07:51 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
nealmccarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sequim, Washington, Washington
Trailer: "Teachers' Pet" our 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I tend to pass the idiots (and responsible, yet slow drivers) if possible, and give way to the maniacs to pass. Most times, I seem to find a good pack willing to travel at the speed I like, which is maintaining the speed limit, or just a bit beyond.
Actually, that is my preference. However, with the added wind resistance, I'll probably slow it down a bit when on freeways. Of course we try to seek out the less traveled routes and avoid the interstates when possible. Much less hectic and often full of pleasant surprises.
__________________
Neal & Sharon

A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
nealmccarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 07:59 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealmccarter View Post
Of course we try to seek out the less traveled routes and avoid the interstates when possible. Much less hectic and often full of pleasant surprises.
This is always preferred, but until I retire, and with limited time to travel, I do tend to just blast to my destination so I have time to relax there and enjoy it.

Some day the travelling will be just as much part of the trip, as the destination.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 08:09 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
nealmccarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sequim, Washington, Washington
Trailer: "Teachers' Pet" our 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
This is always preferred, but until I retire, and with limited time to travel, I do tend to just blast to my destination so I have time to relax there and enjoy it.

Some day the travelling will be just as much part of the trip, as the destination.
Having retired 3 years ago, I have to say that is one of the biggest perks. Last June, when we hit the Memorial Day stampede, we found a great NFS campground a few miles away from Capitol Reef NP, and were able to hunker down for several days, until the crowds left, without worrying over time schedules.
__________________
Neal & Sharon

A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
nealmccarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 08:21 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: _, Texas
Trailer: Escape 5.0 SA
Posts: 544
As long as folks are able to pass around me safely, I am likely to follow the idiots. I am learning to slow down in life and enjoy the scenery.
Attached Thumbnails
RV Bumper.jpg  
daveandsandyclink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 08:32 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
nealmccarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sequim, Washington, Washington
Trailer: "Teachers' Pet" our 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 185
Good one.
__________________
Neal & Sharon

A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
nealmccarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 05:42 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: ottawa, Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 43
In motorcycling. we say " the journey is the destination"
robertg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 10:05 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
nealmccarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sequim, Washington, Washington
Trailer: "Teachers' Pet" our 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertg View Post
In motorcycling. we say " the journey is the destination"
Even better.
__________________
Neal & Sharon

A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
nealmccarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 10:49 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Trailer: 21' Escape (June 2014)
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertg View Post
In motorcycling. we say " the journey is the destination"
That's what I used to say when we went out on our sailboat. One particularly calm day a speedboat went racing by and my dear wife made the comment... "I bet THEY are having fun." Soon after that we sold the sailboat.
Moral of the story might be some journeys aren't as much fun as you hoped for.
Ray N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 02:06 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: _, Texas
Trailer: Escape 5.0 SA
Posts: 544
Growing up... my Dad's idea of a road trip/vacation was like the "Cannonball Run". If you weren't back in the car before he got it filled with fuel, you may get left. This may have been an example of that journey Ray.
daveandsandyclink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2013, 04:49 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
DeadEyeDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sacramento, California
Trailer: 2017 Bigfoot 25
Posts: 275
I'm not in a hurry, but I like to have plenty of power for pulling hills and passing when neccessary. I do not like towing at or near capacity.
__________________
DeadEye Dan
2017 Bigfoot 25 Rear Bed
2017 RAM 2500 Cummins Diesel
DeadEyeDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2023 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.