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Old 02-17-2015, 09:56 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Jubal View Post
Higher octane fuels are necessary for turbo boosted gas engines. Low octane fuels result in predetonation during boost. The power control module responds to input from the knock sensors and regards timing and boost to minimize the chance of damage to the engine pistons due to predetonation. Retarded timing and and reduced boost result in lower horse power.It would be wise to follow the octane recommendations of the manufacturer particularly when towing and hauling under load to avoid engine failure. The higher fuel mileage of the ecoboost engines is only achieved when the turbo is not engaged. Higher octane fuels do not provide more energy and better mileage but are more resistant to predetonation.
While it can substantially benefit some turbos, it doesn't necessarily benefit all of them enough to burn only premium. Do I lose a HP or two in my turbo that I've been running regular in for over a decade? Sure I do. Not a big deal to me, but YMMV. I recognize that there are many polarized opinions on this, and it's been debated on just about every vehicle forum known.

Car and Driver did an extensive study on this very issue several years ago. I recall that the conclusion was that "certain turbos" benefit greatly from Premium, but in most cases, not enough to make a compelling case to absorb the additional operating cost.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:10 PM   #62
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While it can substantially benefit some turbos, it doesn't necessarily benefit all of them enough to burn only premium. Do I lose a HP or two in my turbo that I've been running regular in for over a decade? Sure I do. Not a big deal to me, but YMMV. I recognize that there are many polarized opinions on this, and it's been debated on just about every vehicle forum known.

Car and Driver did an extensive study on this very issue several years ago. I recall that the conclusion was that "certain turbos" benefit greatly from Premium, but in most cases, not enough to make a compelling case to absorb the additional operating cost.
Hmmm. So you feel that you are more knowledgeable then the engineers that have designed the ecoboost system ?? I worked as as a automotive master tech and engine performance specialist for over 40 years and have frequently observed the results of individuals that have failed to follow the recommedations of the engineers of the manufacturers. It was good for business but I disliked rebuilding ruined engines whose failure could have been avoided.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:11 PM   #63
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The speed that we drive is a huge factor in the mileage we get. Remember 55 mph in the 70's. In running 70 to 75 mph with the 5.3 engine and the 3.73 rear end, I got 20 mpg shown by the computer and also figuring it the old fashioned way. I would bring it down to 60 mph for 40 or 50 miles and the mileage would jump up to between 25 and 27 mph. I don't know what speed will work best pulling the trailer but I was thinking in the 65 mph range. At what speeds do a lot of you trailer owners tow? Loren
Our 2014 Silverado Crew Cab with the 5.3 and 3.42 rear end got 12+ at 65 coming back from Chilliwack across South Dakota, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana pulling the 21'. Rolling hills at 60 jumped up to 13 to 14. Mountains tended to be 11-. Non towing is similar to your results.

I think 55 to 60 would get you into the 15 mpg range. I think I will give that more of a chance on our next trip. Maybe look at secondary roads to see more, relax more, and get better mileage.

The Chevy burns regular...
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:11 PM   #64
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Second the post about letting the turbo cool off before engine shutdown. I drove a turbo John Deere tractor during college and had that drilled into me by the farmer. Later I drove a SAAB turbo and got 170K miles off of a turbine, local shop record. If the turbo is hot when you shut it off, stopping the flow of oil, the bearing can cook a bit. Even new technology can't deny laws of physics.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:48 PM   #65
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If the turbo is hot when you shut it off, stopping the flow of oil, the bearing can cook a bit. Even new technology can't deny laws of physics.
The laws of physics are constant, but mechanical design changes. Some approaches to solving this problem have been a pressurized oil reservoir (so a cooling flow of oil continues for some time after engine shutdown), the use of rolling-element (ball, roller, or needle) bearings instead of plain bearings, water-cooling the bearing housing, and a cantilever design that puts the bearings on the opposite side of the (relatively cool) compressor from the (very hot) turbine. All of these have been around for many years, and I'm sure there are other approaches.

I don't know what technique Ford may have used to avoid this well-known problem - if any - for their EcoBoost engines. There is an entire section of the owner's 2015 F-150 manual on Starting and Stopping the Engine, and it doesn't mention any restriction or recommendation concerning idle time before stopping the engine. The section on Auto StartStop has a list of conditions for automatically stopping the engine, and there is no mention of minimum idle time, or anything that seems related such as oil temperature... except possibly this note:
Quote:
The system allows multiple successive Auto StartStop events, but it may not operate in conditions of heavy traffic or in extended low speed operation.
I don't know if Ford has addressed the oil-cooking problem, or if they are just hoping it won't happen. With time, perhaps we'll see.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:54 PM   #66
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So you feel that you are more knowledgeable then the engineers that have designed the ecoboost system ??
No, of course not. That would be preposterous. I don't claim to know more than ANYONE, but I do know that engines fail for a number of different reasons - mainly from not performing scheduled maintenance. I've just never done any harm to mine by burning regular gas. Besides, according to Ford, "the engine was designed to run on 87 or higher octane fuel. However, for best overall performance, premium fuel with an octane of 91 or higher is recommended."

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:56 PM   #67
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Traditionally, high octane is needed to avoid knock in turbocharged gasoline engines, and particularly those with high compression ratios. Ford's EcoBoost engines are turbocharged, and have compression ratio significantly higher than would have traditionally been used with a turbo... but they also have direct fuel injection and other fuel and mixture management features to address this problem. I wouldn't assume that Ford has failed, any more than I would assume that my Mazda with 13.0:1 compression ratio needs higher octane.

This is what Ford actually says in the owner's manual:
Quote:
2.7L and 3.5L EcoBoost Engines
We recommend regular unleaded gasoline with a pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87. Some stations offer fuels posted as regular with an octane rating below 87, particularly in high altitude areas. We do not recommend fuels with an octane rating below 87.
To provide improved performance, we recommend premium fuel for severe duty usage, such as trailer tow.
So the "premium for towing" recommendation is just for performance.
We're half a mile above sea level here, and regular gas is 87 octane.

Robert (and Reace), it looks like you should be just fine with regular.
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Old 02-18-2015, 05:53 AM   #68
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You do have to avoid 20% ethanol with the EB's.
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Old 02-18-2015, 06:03 AM   #69
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You do have to avoid 20% ethanol with the EB's.
That is a little hard to do in the midwest where that fuel seems to be predominant.
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Old 02-18-2015, 06:08 AM   #70
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I had no problems Jim, you just have to remember to look before you start the pump. I only ran into it a couple times.
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