J2807 Towing Standards - Page 2 - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 10-25-2013, 02:29 PM   #11
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If the Ridgeline has 1500# capacity then it has a little more than my Ram 1500 pickup. With 400# tongue weight you still have 1100# for passengers and cargo. I can tell you I had no problem with the Escape 19' and my Ram. You will be fine for a bumper pull, a 5th wheel may not work with the Honda.
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Old 10-25-2013, 04:13 PM   #12
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Jamie, you have a good handle on the situation. Many people do not really have any clue that they should even be looking at numbers. They will tow anything down the road far overweight and wonder what went wrong.

With regard to the 80% used as a safety margin, I have always taken it that the towing capacity is being referred to and you would always be within that provided you stay within the 4000-pound maximum allowed by Escape for the 19' --- true for anyone who has a vehicle with towing capacity of at least 5000 lbs. (Of course, again, that number can be misleading, so all of the numbers have to be checked as you are doing.)

If you want to apply the 80% to the rest of it, that is also your call. Yes, the manufacturer may have allowed for such a thing and people like to debate that, so some say there is no need to care about 80% vs. 100%.

This is totally up to you as to whether you think that you want to apply the 80% idea to all of the numbers. What I always say is that people should know exactly what numbers they have for their vehicle and their trailer instead of going by someone else's say-so.

As you have seen, the numbers are not difficult. Just a matter of looking at them. I don't think someone should wake up one day after listening to someone else without knowing their own numbers and suddenly realize that they are towing on the edge or overweight. Your comfort level may differ from those who tell you that some combination works.

Whatever you decide, you decided it based on your own knowledge. You look as if you are in good shape with what you are considering.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:48 PM   #13
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Jim, thanks very much for your feedback, much appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floating Cloud View Post

With regard to the 80% used as a safety margin, I have always taken it that the towing capacity is being referred to .
Floating Cloud, thanks for the info that the 80% seems to apply to the towing capacity. The Honda's towing capacity is 5000 lbs (depending on passengers) so a 4000 lb trailer would leave some margin in towing capacity.

Thanks all for the input. j
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Old 10-25-2013, 07:55 PM   #14
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Jamie, I am a big fan of anything Honda, lawn mowers, snow throwers, cars and especially the Ridgeline which I used for a few years. I towed a 3000# camp trailer as loaded. Crossing I-8 from CA to AZ numerous times, I would hit several 4000 hills (those are not mountains) and I would be hitting 5000 RPM at times and I blamed the high RPM for causing a couple of oil leaks in the engine. Maybe a main type of seal that were fixed under warranty. When I planned on the Escape 19 I moved to a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a Hemi engine, 390# torque and it is 18" shorter. It now tows our 21 Escape very well.

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Old 10-26-2013, 09:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie beers View Post
I was quite interested in buying a Honda Ridgeline for towing a 19' Escape. The Honda's GCWR is 10,088 lbs, am I better off to assume an 80% capacity of 8000 lbs? Are we to build in a redundancy figure because manufacturers do not?

If that's the case, I certainly would not choose the Honda .
You would be just fine with the Ridgeline. I pull with my Honda Pilot all the time, with no issue. While I don't subscribe to any percentage of tow capacity to safely use, as that really is just a random number some have chosen to use, it is nice to have that extra capacity for performance reasons, as it makes passing and steep grades much easier to handle. There is no issue taking the tow capacity right up to the limit from a safety standpoint if you have your weight distributed on the trailer properly, and the brakes set up as recommended.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:33 PM   #16
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I agree with Jim, but a reminder: there is no problem going right up to the heaviest trailer which fits in all of the limits, as Fran & Dave and Floating Cloud explained.
  • GCWR
  • GVWR
  • GAWR-front
  • GAWR-rear
  • towing capacity
  • hitch weight limit

It looks like Jamie has now covered most of them - perhaps only the hitch weight and axle capacities remain - of the axles, only the rear axle would be a concern if a weight distribution system is not used.

The relationship to SAE standard J2807 is that if the vehicle is tested to that standard, the operator can be relatively confident that the vehicle will properly handle the rated loads, and so leaving some arbitrary extra margin is even less appropriate.
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Old 10-26-2013, 01:10 PM   #17
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Hi: All...I think, IMHO, that all standardized testing and Mfg's own tow ratings should be consumed with a pinch of salt. Have you ever been able to reach the stated gas mileage for a particular brand or model? Remember the tow rating given the Dodge Dakota RT. Chrysler ended up giving the owners a generous refund or replacement.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:01 PM   #18
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The Dodge Dakota RT is a sport truck with a 2000lb tow rating. Never considered a good choice for towing. The suspension was too low and would bottom out with anything more than a jet ski in tow. Big boys made them go faster and trailered them to the track with a bigger Dodge truck. Staying on the subject, I like the position Toyota is taking. All others should quiet their hype. If consumers could influence the truck and recreational vehicle manufactures to accept J2807, it would greatly help consumers choose the right vehicle for towing. Like safety and crash standards have done.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escape artist View Post
...I think, IMHO, that all standardized testing and Mfg's own tow ratings should be consumed with a pinch of salt. Have you ever been able to reach the stated gas mileage for a particular brand or model? Remember the tow rating given the Dodge Dakota RT.
Good point, but SAE J2807 is based on real-world testing; EPA mileage is not.
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Old 10-27-2013, 08:39 PM   #20
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I am a newly and probably don't understand all the details of this discussion, it does explain why my 2012 Toyota FJ Cruiser has a lower towing rating that all previous model years and zero difference in the actual vehicle.
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