Jeep Wrangler

[cpaharley2008]

I traded a 2012 Jeep Liberty for my 2012 FJ Cruiser, it has a lot more power than the Jeep and all I needed was the Andersen w/d to raise my rear 2" and I was a happy camper (other than not being able to open my rear hatch while hooked up though)

[thedtvman]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The interesting thing is that in comparison to the Toyota FJ Cruiser which Jim towed his 19' with, the Wrangler

• is about the same weight,
• is similarly constructed (body on frame, solid rear axle, conventional drivetrain layout),
• has about the same size of engine and more power, and
• the Wrangler Unlimited is longer in wheelbase.

I don't know why the "tough" and "capable" Jeep has such as low GCWR. I suspect that it would be as safe as an FJ and more stable, but Chrysler just didn't equip the Wrangler's drivetrain for heavy-duty use, with enough cooling capacity, for instance... and the tongue weight limit is just an arbitrary number that follows as a result.

As FJ owners may know, the FJ Cruiser is on a variant of the Land Cruiser Prado chassis, and outside of North America Land Cruiser is better known for off-road performance and reliability than Jeep. Just having a little fun with the Jeep owners...

Yes it is strange that the towing capacity is so low on this vehicle. The same configuration in europe is rated at 7000 pounds. Now I'm not sure what to do!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

With my 3500# and your 4500# Jeep, leaves you 300 margin which is eliminated by the
tongue weight, sorry you will be over weight.

Huh?
If you mean that a 3500 lb trailer plus 4500 lb vehicle totals 8000 lb and the entire remaining 300 pounds to GCWR is used up by the tongue weight...
No, the trailer weight includes the tongue weight - you don't add it in twice. You include it once when comparing the whole combination to GCWR; you include it once when comparing the total loaded weight of the Jeep to its GVWR.

If you mean the trailer axle weight by itself is 3500 lb, then it is overweight for the Jeep (because total trailer weight includes the tongue) regardless of GVWR or the Jeep's curb weight. Just don't do that...

On the other hand, if you max out the trailer at 3500 lb, and the Jeep does weigh 4500 lb, that really does leave only 347 pounds for passengers and stuff in the Jeep. That's why trailer loading is important... do you have to load it all the way up to 3500 pounds?

[cpaharley2008]

You are right Brian, my error in typing so fast.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I traded a 2012 Jeep Liberty for my 2012 FJ Cruiser, it has a lot more power than the Jeep ...

The Liberty and Wrangler are quite unrelated, sharing no mechanical components or structure (or anything else other than a Jeep badge as far as I know). The 3.7 L engine in the Liberty wasn't a great powerhouse, yet the Liberty seems to have had a higher tow rating, not entirely explainable by a lower curb weight.

The current Wrangler has a lot more power than the Liberty.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

... my error in typing so fast.

No problem... as long as we're all straightened out

[thedtvman]

So presuming that I load up the escape to 3500 pounds I will still have 337 pounds to transport myself and 140 pounds worth of other things ! I had better put myself on a diet and slim up some more

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thedtvman

Yes it is strange that the towing capacity is so low on this vehicle. The same configuration in europe is rated at 7000 pounds. Now I'm not sure what to do!

If this were a certain other lightweight moulded fiberglass travel trailer forum, this would be a cause for a Euro towing limit debate alarm

Kidding aside, Euro limits are routinely quite a bit higher, presumably based on different assumptions about how people will tow, such as their speed. If - just for instance - the Euro limit is based on 80 km/h (50 mph) towing, and the North American limit is based on 100 km/h (62 mph) towing, then the North American limit would have to allow for the significantly higher power demand and more likely overheating problems. With higher speed also comes less trailer stability. Also, there is the general assumption that we're all idiots over here who don't know how to drive...

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thedtvman

So presuming that I load up the escape to 3500 pounds I will still have 337 pounds to transport myself and 140 pounds worth of other things ! I had better put myself on a diet and slim up some more

LOL

It might be easier to ease up on the stuff in the trailer...

... but seriously, my loaded trailer weight is about 600 lb over the empty weight. Scale up to 800 lb for the bigger trailer (more space for stuff), and 3300 pounds seems reasonable. 537 pounds may still not be enough, but it isn't as unreasonable.

[Burloak]

Turning the little white petcock on the fresh water tank puts the trailer on a 160 lb diet. It's on my departure check list.. Pump off, hot water heat off, lock door, open petcock..

[gbaglo]

An empty fresh water tank helps reduce weight if you're going to camp at a serviced site, but all my favourite spots either have no water or maybe a hand pump.

[escape artist]

Hi: All...It sounds to me like you all need to step back and enjoy an ice cold bottle of "Slim Fast"!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Burloak]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

An empty fresh water tank helps reduce weight if you're going to camp at a serviced site, but all my favourite spots either have no water or maybe a hand pump.

I've never camped with a RV where I haven't had access to potable water.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by Burloak

I've never camped with a RV where I haven't had access to potable water.

Many places where we like to boondock may have a river or creek nearby, and no other sources of water. You could take drinking water from these creeks or rivers (and we sometimes have), but without filtering/purifying you are taking a bit of a chance of catching giardia or some other nasty.

Depending on your style of camping, traveling with your freshwater tanks empty may not be a real option for "losing weight."

[cpaharley2008]

I always carry potable water from home, but keep 10 gal in the fresh tank for toilet and grey water use, not drinking, does anyone fill their tank with creek water for same, flushing the toilet?

[Burloak]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I always carry potable water from home, but keep 10 gal in the fresh tank for toilet and grey water use, not drinking, does anyone fill their tank with creek water for same, flushing the toilet?

Same here.. I never drink the water from the fresh water tank irregardless of how it got filled. Was camping at my uncles place in Nova Scotia this summer and followed his practice, fresh water tank filled and replenished from the lake. Drinking water hand dipped from the dug well as required.

The issue is trying to avoid moving unnecessary mass, figure 1-3% more fuel required per 100lbs of mass moved. If draining the hot water tank was as easy as draining the fresh Id do that also. Save another 50lbs

[Scuba55]

cpaharley, are you planning to tow your 21 with the FJ?

[cpaharley2008]

Yes, the 21 is still within the capacities of the FJ, will get me another Andersen Hitch though.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Burloak

Same here.. I never drink the water from the fresh water tank irregardless of how it got filled. Was camping at my uncles place in Nova Scotia this summer and followed his practice, fresh water tank filled and replenished from the lake. Drinking water hand dipped from the dug well as required.

The issue is trying to avoid moving unnecessary mass, figure 1-3% more fuel required per 100lbs of mass moved. If draining the hot water tank was as easy as draining the fresh Id do that also. Save another 50lbs

Too bad Escape doesn't use the Atwood water heater (or maybe it is Suburban, I get them confused) but the point is the other brand does not use the anode rod and you have a plastic nut which can be replaced with a spigot, thus emptying would be easier. HHmm, maybe I should ask the factory if it can be switched.

[Scuba55]

I'd be interested to know how well the 21 tows with the FJ. I have a Frontier and am considering the 21, actually considering all of the Escapes excluding the 15 and 17. I also will be interested to learn how the 21 owners feel about the bed.