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12-16-2015, 02:15 PM
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#121
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tidewater
The US version has Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) and Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), a turn-off for me in diesel engines.
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I understand wanting to avoid these features, but since it is essentially impossible to meet current North American emission limits without them, the choice is between a full slate of emission controls (EGR, SCR, DPF) or a non-diesel engine.
VW wanted to avoid the selective catalytic reduction (SCR), but they couldn't do it with adequate performance and economy, so they just cheated. That has not worked out so well
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12-16-2015, 04:06 PM
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#122
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: tucson, Arizona
Trailer: 2014 Bigfoot 25B175FB
Posts: 18
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I agree, Brian. These devises are needed for current emissions requirements. That's why I'm keeping my 13 year-old Cummins. I just spent $3K for new injectors so it may be false economy to keep the old girl...
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12-17-2015, 12:23 PM
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#123
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alaska, Washington
Trailer: 2014 5.0 TA
Posts: 451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tidewater
I agree, Brian. These devises are needed for current emissions requirements. That's why I'm keeping my 13 year-old Cummins. I just spent $3K for new injectors so it may be false economy to keep the old girl...
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I also just poured some money into my old ram. Dual EGT/Boost gauge in the A pillar, tranny temp, fuel and fuel rail pressure gauges below the heater controls and a new Alpine system. On a good day with the right conditions I average right around 20 mpg towing the 5.0 TA, any kind of hills or wind drops the mileage to around 16-18 mpg. My o’ my, that 5.9 cummins just purrs on long road trips.
Oh, now when I crank up AC/DC Thunderstruck, it totally rocks! Scott
Scott, Lori & Fritz the arctic snow schnauzer
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12-20-2015, 12:02 AM
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#124
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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The "February 2016" issue of Diesel World (the one now in the stores) features an article about the Colorado diesel. The content is not available on the website, the article was written before the official fuel economy numbers were available, and it doesn't have any objective test measurements; however, I read it and it does have subjective observations from an actual test drive with a trailer attached, and it does focus on towing.
They like it.
They also include some comments about the difference between the Duramax 2.8 and the EcoDiesel (in the Ram 1500), and a explanation of the relationship between the Duramax 2.8 and VM Motori's A428 DOHC.
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01-01-2016, 01:47 AM
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#125
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: O town, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 "Lightning"
Posts: 1,467
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01-01-2016, 03:10 AM
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#126
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCnomad
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Interesting - I had not heard of that.
The article describes some interesting possibilities, including the Ford / Land Rover V6. It also includes this very relevant note:
Quote:
keep mind a development mule doesn’t always mean future product
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For those interested in the diesel V6 rumoured to used in the F-150:
Range Rover story re. Td6
Wikipedia article for Ford 3.0D/TDV6/SDV6/HDi
This looks like a modern diesel car engine very much like the EcoDiesel in the Ram 1500 and Jeep Grand Cherokee, and a little less like the similarly modern diesel engines in the Colorado and Ford Transit (and worldwide Ranger). I see that the Range Rover application uses the same ZF 8-speed transmission as the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel.
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01-01-2016, 12:50 PM
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#127
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: O town, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 "Lightning"
Posts: 1,467
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If the FoMoCo 10 speed tranny is half as good as the Mopar ZF 8 speed, that will be a winner for Ford.
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01-01-2016, 02:09 PM
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#128
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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If the pricing pattern Ford uses is similar to other makes, and you have to pay a big premium for the Diesel option, then the extra couple of MPG might not be so attractive. I love a diesel for pulling a heavy load, mainly because of the low end torque, but I just can't see spending 6K more to tow a lightweight like my Escape, when the EcoBoost V6 does such a fine job already.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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01-01-2016, 02:20 PM
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#129
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCnomad
If the FoMoCo 10 speed tranny is half as good as the Mopar ZF 8 speed, that will be a winner for Ford.
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... and for GM, since they are sharing this transmission.
It appears that the current F-150 transmission is the 6R80 (which means six-speed, for rear-wheel-drive, and "80" is a number proportional to input torque capacity). GM and Ram are already using strong 8-speeds (GM's own 8L90 and the Chrysler version of ZF's 8HP) so in this case Ford is playing catch-up.
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01-01-2016, 02:24 PM
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#130
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
I love a diesel for pulling a heavy load, mainly because of the low end torque, but I just can't see spending 6K more to tow a lightweight like my Escape, when the EcoBoost V6 does such a fine job already.
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The primary reason for low-end torque in a turbodiesel is the turbocharger, which you also have in the EcoBoost... which is one reason why the EcoBoost works so well.
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01-01-2016, 06:54 PM
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#131
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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01-02-2016, 11:33 AM
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#132
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mission, British Columbia
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 6
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I have a Ram 1500 with the Eco Diesel 4x4, right now I'm getting 11L/100km (25mpg) empty, in town driving. Towing my Escape 19 on my last trip I got 14L/100km (20mpg) I drove the Crowsnest highway in BC and had power to spare climbing the hills, and in tow/haul mode the turbo vanes were used as an exhaust brake going down hill. Combined truck and trailer weight was 10 000lbs, according to the truck scale in Hope. It was a much better towing experience than the 1989 Suburban I was using.
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01-03-2016, 09:09 AM
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#133
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
The primary reason for low-end torque in a turbodiesel is the turbocharger, which you also have in the EcoBoost... which is one reason why the EcoBoost works so well.
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Very true Brian, we love the low end torque in the EcoBoost too. I was referring more to the general rule that diesels produce more low end torque than their gasoline counterparts - mainly because they usually have a longer stroke length and higher boost pressure. In any case, the higher MPG of the diesel would be more than offset (imho) by the lower cost of gasoline, and the lower cost of the gasoline vehicle. I read an article some time back where they did a study and found the "break even" point in terms of cost was somewhere around 8-9 years for most diesels vs their gas engine counterparts.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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01-03-2016, 01:54 PM
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#134
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
I was referring more to the general rule that diesels produce more low end torque than their gasoline counterparts - mainly because they usually have a longer stroke length and higher boost pressure.
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Higher boost pressure is a good point, although that's still a turbocharging characteristic. In a few ways, gasoline and diesel engines are converging toward the same features and similar specs, so I think we'll continue to see the traditional distinctions fade.
Longer stroke length for the same displacement doesn't directly improve torque, because longer stroke means smaller bore, so you have a longer lever arm but less force - no gain. The longer stoke is really just an indication of a lower operating speed, and that doesn't increase torque either, but it typically means a lower speed for peak torque. Mostly, diesels are just big... but in the case of the Ram 1500 and Colorado, we're not talking about big engines.
Although the 2.7L EcoBoost has shorter stoke than the Duramax 2.8L (due to one more cylinder and more square bore to stoke ratio) the EcoBoost puts out slightly more torque.
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01-03-2016, 09:49 PM
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#135
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
...In a few ways, gasoline and diesel engines are converging toward the same features and similar specs, so I think we'll continue to see the traditional distinctions fade.
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That's so true. The dealer where we bought our truck had a static display with an Ecoboost engine cut in half, and several internal components on display. It was remarkably similar to the turbo diesel engines I've seen.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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01-03-2016, 10:14 PM
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#136
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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I have to say, or I will explode, that the current Chevy ads, for trucks and cars are annoying me no end.
They claim best fuel economy, best towing, best thingamabob, but you have to buy three trucks to get all three bests.
And, they are flogging 4G Wifi as the main reason for buying a vehicle. I'm going send that kid and his game controller to his room, along with Chevy's entire marketing department.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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01-04-2016, 05:56 AM
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#137
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Pickups with 31 mpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
I have to say, or I will explode, that the current Chevy ads, for trucks and cars are annoying me no end.
They claim best fuel economy, best towing, best thingamabob, but you have to buy three trucks to get all three bests.
And, they are flogging 4G Wifi as the main reason for buying a vehicle. I'm going send that kid and his game controller to his room, along with Chevy's entire marketing department.
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Couldn't agree more. The latest one I saw today gives you a choice of either the Silverado with "built in 4G LTE WiFi" or an F150 towing a 1960s trailer with a dowdy lady inside with a typewriter, a fax machine and a satellite dish on the roof. Ugh. Guess they've never heard of phones or MiFis.
One thing they conveniently don't mention is that you have to either open an account with a carrier or add the truck to your existing data plan. The MiFi is actually more versatile than the built in because you can move a hockey puck easier than you can move a truck.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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