Pickups with 31 mpg

[Brian B-P]

Heavy (Class 8) truck diesel engines far outlast gas engines in cars... but that's a wildly unfair comparison. If anyone bought a heavy truck gasoline engine of the same size and weight as the diesels (typically 14 litre displacement inline-sixes) they would find it would last just as long. You can actually buy non-diesel versions of some of the big truck engines (for use with natural gas, from Cummins), and they are warranted just as long as the diesel.

Even a 7.3L Ford is a huge and heavy engine compared to the gas engines available for the same truck. The 6.8L V10 is close... and those things seem to last a long time, too. I have one in our motorhome and I don't expect to ever see it fail, given the type of service.

There is nothing about compression-ignition (diesel) engine design which is inherently more reliable than spark-ignition (gasoline) engine design, and over the years they have converged to being nearly the same. Double overhead camshafts running four valves per cylinder, direct fuel injection, and turbocharging... all of these characteristics (and many more) describe both a current pickup truck diesel and some current pickup truck gas engines (such as an EcoBoost). With only two valves per cylinder, no turbo, and not even direct fuel injection (which requires precision injectors running at very high pressure, whether the fuel is diesel or gasoline) it could be argued that the current GM truck gas engines (Gen V small-blocks) are the conservative choice for long-term reliability.

In a "one-ton" pickup, the diesels are intended for reasonably long life, and many of them do last a long time (although very many also have major problems quite early - check out any online forum for diesel engine owners and read about common problems and despised generations of engines)... but a huge gas engine designed for that service would be no different. Due to the high fuel consumption of these heavy vehicles, the diesels are in demand so it makes sense that resale value of the diesels is higher. In a Colorado - I don't know, we'll see.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

You also have to consider that a diesel engine outlasts a gas engine by a lot, all dependant on lots of variables, like type of driving (towing, highway, etc). I recently read of someone with a 2002 F-350 with a 7.3 litre Power Stroke diesel, who made it past the 1 million mile mark with the original engine, though almost all highway miles. Of course that is not likely the norm.

... and there are Toyota Celicas (I know, no longer made, but we're talked high-mileage vehicles here) with a million miles on them, too. Again, not the norm, but any low-stressed engine which is well-maintained has a good shot at a long life.

The light cheap and powerful (and so maybe not-so-reliable) car engines usually still outlive the car, which gets scrapped due to collision damage, rust, transmission failure, or just the desire for a "cooler" ride.

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Another big consideration is resale. Equivalent trucks with diesel engines out price those with gas engines on the used market by a considerable amount.

In heavy pickups - unlike in cars and most of the tugs used to pull Escapes - fuel is a significant operating cost concern, so a diesel engine helps resale value. Will this work in a Colorado? Perhaps. How are Ram 1500 EcoDiesel resale prices holding up?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

With only two valves per cylinder, no turbo, and not even direct fuel injection (which requires precision injectors running at very high pressure, whether the fuel is diesel or gasoline) it could be argued that the current GM truck gas engines (Gen V small-blocks) are the conservative choice for long-term reliability.

Oops... those GM GenV small-blocks apparently do have direct injection. I guess that particular expensive technology is becoming unavoidable (my car has it too).

[steve dunham]

I know several people who own diesel pickups that have gotten 500,000 out of their engines
The problem in our area is road salt . The trucks rust out long before the engines wear out.
If one lives in a warm climate where snow and salt are not an issue a diesel may make economic sense . Plus in my area the cost of diesel fuel is often $1/ gal higher than regular gasoline negating any MPG increase.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The problem in our area is road salt . The trucks rust out long before the engines wear out.

We get that with Dodges and Chevy's all the time.

[yardsale]

Unfortunately, the Chevy Colorado and GMC Yukon are both rated much worse than average reliability from Consumer Reports. Dodge Ram is below average reliablity. Best truck rated was the Ford 150 with the 2.7 V6, average reliability.

[thoer]

Yardsale, I've learned that Consumer Reports is a very controversial topic here: http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...ower-6639.html

[PGDriver]

I think when it comes down to it trucks are like Escape trailers, none are perfect to some people. Some don't expect them to be as nothing ever is, some will complain about the smallest things. Our truck is like our trailer, perfect for us. But then again we have a GMC and Escape trailer. [emoji6]

Cheers
Doug

[Jimrules]

I use Consumer Reports quite a bit when doing research. That said, its not perfect. (I do my best to help by being as accurate as I can when I fill out the surveys.)
If you're going to use it as a source I think it's important to read the articles, descriptions & reviews not just look at the ratings charts.

Thoer is right though. For some reason it does seem to make people upset more often than most other magazines or websites.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

We get that with Dodges and Chevy's all the time.

I will assume you own a Ford, which of course never rust .Now that Ford trucks are made with "Military Grade Aluminum" they should last forever !. Rust is a large issue in our area and if Ford 's aluminum body solves that problem , it will continue to be the leader in truck sales. I am not brand loyal so I may have a Ford in my future. I wish Ford would offer a small diesel but they see their future in the Eco Boost.

[padlin]

I've yet to loose a vehicle to it's engine, we drive them till they are pretty much junk. Living in a salted road/snow zone one would think body rust would be a problem, but it's not. The rest of the vehicles seems to fall apart, front ends rust to crap to the point where you can't get them fixed. Steel bolts, brake lines, calipers, and so forth rust out. An aluminum body doesn't help me much with longevity, we need to move.

Would like to hear how the smaller Ecoboost engine does for power when towing a 5.0TA and it's MPG when not towing. Real life, not EPA.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by padlin

I've yet to loose a vehicle to it's engine, we drive them till they are pretty much junk. Living in a salted road/snow zone one would think body rust would be a problem, but it's not. The rest of the vehicles seems to fall apart, front ends rust to crap to the point where you can't get them fixed. Steel bolts, brake lines, calipers, and so forth rust out. An aluminum body doesn't help me much with longevity, we need to move.

Would like to hear how the smaller Ecoboost engine does for power when towing a 5.0TA and it's MPG when not towing. Real life, not EPA.

Hi: padlin... To bad you don't have Krown in your area. http://www.krown.com Here in the rust belt my 10 yr. old Ford Taurus wagon looked like new when I gave it to my son. Krown cost $120./ yr. and worth every penny. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I will assume you own a Ford, which of course never rust .Now that Ford trucks are made with "Military Grade Aluminum" they should last forever !. Rust is a large issue in our area and if Ford 's aluminum body solves that problem , it will continue to be the leader in truck sales. I am not brand loyal so I may have a Ford in my future. I wish Ford would offer a small diesel but they see their future in the Eco Boost.

LOL, obvious wasn't it. I have never owned a Chev truck, though drove one company supplied one, and did not like it at all. I also drove a Dodge Ram company truck, when they first came out with the Cummins engine in them, and though that engine could out pull a locomotive, the rest of the truck rattled apart around it.

Other than a small Toyota Hilux, circa early 70's) that I just could not kill despite trying, all my other trucks have bee Fords. While not perfect at all, I have had fairly good luck with them, probably why I keep falling back to them. I am on my 9th one now.

I too am really keen to see how the aluminum body does against rust. Get this, the dealer financial guy that was taking my money, and trying to get me to buy all their additional plans and services (I did do the general maintenance one) still tried to sell me on rust proofing. I wouldn't have done it anyway, but kida weird he would even suggest it.

Ford does offer two small diesels, a 2.2L nd 3.2L in their Ranger, which for now is not available to North America, but rumoured to be brought here next year. I too certainly hope they bring the diesel offerings.

Originally Posted by padlin

Would like to hear how the smaller Ecoboost engine does for power when towing a 5.0TA and it's MPG when not towing. Real life, not EPA.

I think Carl has chimed in with these numbers. Maybe he could help. I can give you my results in 6 months.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The problem in our area is road salt . The trucks rust out long before the engines wear out..

F150 with aluminum alloy body = no body rust.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

F150 with aluminum alloy body = no body rust.

Wondering. Does it have anodes that would need to be replaced ( like an aluminum boat )?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I will assume you own a Ford, which of course never rust .Now that Ford trucks are made with "Military Grade Aluminum" they should last forever !. Rust is a large issue in our area and if Ford 's aluminum body solves that problem , it will continue to be the leader in truck sales. I am not brand loyal so I may have a Ford in my future.

If you want an aluminum-bodied pickup, you can get an F-150 today, an F-SuperDuty (F-250, F-350, etc) in the 2017 model year... or wait for everyone else to do them, since it's only a matter of time. It's going to be awkward for the GM marketing people, when they start selling what they have been ridiculing.

Of course aluminum does corrode - it's just not called rust - and we have yet to see how long it takes before that's a problem with Ford trucks. It's not as if any of this is new - corrosion is an issue with aluminum aircraft, and Land Rover has been putting aluminum bodies on steel frames for decades.

As long as cab and box corrosion is the issue, I'm sure that the aluminum will help greatly. The frame is still steel, so there is still a rust risk there.

In this area, vehicles die because they are crashed, junked due to failure of a major component (e.g. transmission), or just plain worn out... usually before they rust to death. Winter is long, but not much salt is used on the roads, and temperatures don't hover around freezing in the salt-slurry stage for long.

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I wish Ford would offer a small diesel but they see their future in the Eco Boost.

So the diesel pickup list is:

• in heavy-duty: all of the Big Three (GM, Ram, Ford)
• in full-size light-duty: Ram, soon to be Nissan (Titan XD)
• in mid-sized light-duty: GM

You could also buy a Mercedes Sprinter, Ford Transit, or Ram ProMaster cab-and-chassis diesel and mount a box on it, but in each case you can only get a 2WD regular cab. The Ford and Ram have engines comparable in size and type to the GM Colorado/Canyon; the Mercedes is larger and its engine is nearly identical to the one in the Ram 1500, but all three engines are close in displacement and performance (3.0L and 3.2L).

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by padlin

I've yet to loose a vehicle to it's engine, we drive them till they are pretty much junk. Living in a salted road/snow zone one would think body rust would be a problem, but it's not. The rest of the vehicles seems to fall apart, front ends rust to crap to the point where you can't get them fixed. Steel bolts, brake lines, calipers, and so forth rust out. An aluminum body doesn't help me much with longevity, we need to move.

Good point. My parents in Ontario (high salt and rust area) had to give up on their second-last car when it had no serious body rust and a good running drivetrain, only because of brake line rust (a lot of labour to replace).

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Ford does offer two small diesels, a 2.2L nd 3.2L in their Ranger, which for now is not available to North America, but rumoured to be brought here next year. I too certainly hope they bring the diesel offerings.

Everyone sells just about everything with a diesel in Europe and much of the rest of the world, and not here. Ford has clearly and repeatedly expressed their lack of interest in selling the new Ranger in North America, but that means about as much as a politician's campaign promises. The latest predictions of the Ranger's return appear to have been based entirely on rumours of the content of negotiations between Ford and United Auto Workers about the fate of one of Ford's Michigan Assembly Plant, and that might turn out to be true... for the 2019 model year: Jobs, plant investment cornerstone of Ford-UAW contract

The larger diesel used in the worldwide Ranger is already available in North America - that's the 3.2L five-cylinder in the Transit, called "DuraTorq" in Europe and "Power Stroke" here. They could put it in the F-150 if they wanted... engines are pretty well interchangeable within similar bulk and weight.

[Scuba55]

I agree with you on Ford offering a diesel. I'm going to take a hard look at the new Nissan Titan HD. Its suppose to have a powerful diesel.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Scuba55

I'm going to take a hard look at the new Nissan Titan HD. Its suppose to have a powerful diesel.

It's the Cummins 5L V8 - a compromise between the excessively large (6.7L V8) engines in the heavy-duty pickups and the less powerful and smaller (2.8L to 3.2L, 4 to 6 cylinder) engines in the commercial vans and other light-duty pickups (Ram and Colorado). This is a much bigger engine in a bigger and heavier truck than the Colorado (or Ram 1500), so I don't expect fuel consumption miracles.