Push/Pull when towing

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

It has been done, and reported in other forums. The answer is that the Andersen system has exactly the same effect on load distribution as any other WD system, since they all work the same way (applying torque to the tug/trailer coupling). The amount of load transferred is determined by how tightly you crank the WD hardware (in either design), up to the limit of the hardware. You shouldn't be anywhere near the limit of the Andersen No-Sway or any but the smallest conventional WD systems when adjusting to tow any Escape.

I agree the Andersen has the same weight distribution properties for an Escape (or any other trailer with a low tongue weight) as a conventional wdh would. Both are able to achieve 100% FALR.

But, not on heavy trailers. Excellent report on the subject here:

Woodalls Open Roads Forum: Towing: Andersen Hitch for Lightweights

[Vermilye]

If you are interested in the actual loaded weights, although it includes other brands of fiberglass trailers, with permission of the original complier of the data which is on the Fiberglass Trailer Forum, I have an Excel spreadsheet that includes Escapes: Trailer Weights in the Real World. It can be sorted for just the Escapes or even for just one size.

[DonF]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

If you are interested in the actual loaded weights, although it includes other brands of fiberglass trailers, with permission of the original complier of the data which is on the Fiberglass Trailer Forum, I have an Excel spreadsheet that includes Escapes: Trailer Weights in the Real World. It can be sorted for just the Escapes or even for just one size.

John;
Thanks for the link, being able to sort the data is very helpful.
It's curious that 3 of the tongue weights are less than the ETI estimate of 256 lbs. for a dry tongue weight. And, on two of the three sets of weights, the corresponding axle and trailer weights are the highest of any of the units weighed:
Axle-3620, Tongue-240, Total-3,860
Axle-3740, Tongue-240, Total-3,980
Can anyone help me to understand how that can happen?

[dbailey]

Too much weight shifted to the rear of the trailer... Weight in the rear reduces tongue weight. Bad all 'round.

[cpaharley2008]

Also a bad tongue scale, my 19' traditionally stayed around 400# loaded with propane and front box, the 21' is staying at 500# loaded.

[Brian B-P]

Sorry - in the first version of this post I lost track of the model of interest as I skipped between topics.

Originally Posted by DonF

It's curious that 3 of the tongue weights are less than the ETI estimate of 256 lbs. for a dry tongue weight. And, on two of the three sets of weights, the corresponding axle and trailer weights are the highest of any of the units weighed:
Axle-3620, Tongue-240, Total-3,860
Axle-3740, Tongue-240, Total-3,980
Can anyone help me to understand how that can happen?

I agree with Doug - both high axle load and low tongue weight are consistent with rearward loading. Did these trailers have bike racks and/or external rear cargo boxes?
For another explanation, see my next post about tongue weight measurement...

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Also a bad tongue scale, my 19' traditionally stayed around 400# loaded with propane and front box, the 21' is staying at 500# loaded.

As I recall, Frederick used a properly calibrated (he's a professional scale guy) electronic industrial scale for this measurement.

With a tandem-axle trailer - especially one with Torflex suspensions - having the tongue a bit low during the measurement can substantially lower the measured tongue weight; similarly, a bit high can mean a substantially higher reading. The low numbers are labeled as coming from the Oregon gathering, so they were done by Frederick (not owner-submitted). Many 19' owners use a WD system, and when it is disconnected for this weighing at entry to the event the tongue will drop; when that low coupler height is later duplicated in the campsite for the tongue weight measurement, it seems to me that a lower weight will be recorded than is actually in effect during towing.

This method results in an accurate total trailer weight (which was the purpose), but not an accurate distribution between tongue and axle.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Floating Cloud

I would like to see the weight comparisons for Escapes. I think only one owner has given weight distribution for an Anderson here. Numbers particular to Escapes would be good to have so people actually know the situation without guessing or assuming...

This is a very predictable thing.

1. Get out a tape measure and see how far it is from the midpoint of the two trailer axles (just to the axle of a single-axle model) - which means the wheel centre, not that tube under the trailer - to the rear axle of the tug... call that "X".
2. Add up "X" and the wheelbase ("W") of the tug (measure that, or check the specs - 109.8" for a current 4Runner)... call that "L" (this is the whole distance from trailer axles to tug front axle).

When you apply any WD system, the fraction of the transferred load which goes to the front axle is X/L, so if for instance if

• "W" is 109.8" (a 4Runner)
• "X" is 16 feet or 192" (roughly right for an Escape 19' and the overhang of a 4Runner)
• then L= 302"
• and X/L = 0.64 or 64%
• so
  • the tug's front axle will get 64% of whatever load you decide to transfer off of the tug's rear axle,
  • and the trailer's axles will get the other 36% of that same load that you decided to transfer off of the tug's rear axle

The amount of load that you transfer is unrelated to the trailer or it's weight - it's your choice.

• If you choose to transfer enough to level out your tug, the amount will depend on factors such as how stiff your tug's suspension is... not the trailer.
• If you choose to restore the tug's front axle to the same load it had before hooking up the trailer, that can be easily calculated too... but maybe that should be in a separate post. This amount depends only on the trailer tongue weight, the tug wheelbase, and how far back the ball is from the tug's rear axle.

A key point is that the load transfer numbers will not be the same for two identical trailers unless the tugs and the WD adjustment philosophy are the same, too.

[Rossue]

Am using Andersen for 21/Yukon. Had Pro-Series for 17B. Took a little getting used to but prefer the new one. Service manager without hesitation suggested WDH at local GM dealer. Am seeing larger trucks than mine using them, probably for the reason most of us are: safer towing.

[Brian B-P]

From another topic:

Originally Posted by Floating Cloud

We use a WDH with our 4Runner ...
... It redistributes about 300 lbs up to the front of the TV and back to the Escape.

If this means that 300 pounds is pulled off of the rear axle by the WDH, then - using the example above - almost 2/3 (close to 200 lb) is being added to the 4Runner's front axle, and the rest (a bit over 100 lb) is being added to the Escape's axles.

200 pounds would be about right to compensate for the load taken off the front axle by something like 400 pounds of tongue weight applied to a 4Runner hitch.

Correct my assumed dimensions and load transfer amount, and you get a more accurate picture.