|
|
02-22-2016, 05:11 PM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: no fixed address, California
Trailer: 2017-21' Escape (sold) Casita 17' (sold)
Posts: 1,348
|
Reducing tongue weight on a 21’ by LOADING differently
Reducing tongue weight on a 21’ by LOADING differently
Hi all
We will have a forthcoming 2017 - - - 21’ Escape. (will order when ordering opens)
Tug is a Acura MDX with factory tow package. 5000 lb max, 500 lb max tongue weight.
AWD, and 300 hp (10% more than the peppiest Highlander)
Prodigy P2 proportional brake controller.
Will get ETI to install the e2 Fastway WDH with built in sway.
They recently said "that one is best for the 21'" (that they sell)
Have ordered a Shureline LM 1000 scale, and will be very careful about measuring & watching tongue weight.
Az Jack (and many others) say their 21’ loaded is about 4,200 gross.
No, I am not going to change the tug now… so don’t try to convince me to.
Numerous people tow with a Highlander, and that has the same max weight capacity (5,000 & 500) as our tug, and 10% less horsepower. (270 hp vs our 300 hp V6)
Will be getting dual 6v batteries in the 21’ (they are in rear dinette seats, i do believe, on the 21’)
will be getting factory installed solar.
so those things put some weight at the back.
We also try to minimize towing with full black & grey tanks any distance… (even though we do mostly boondocking….. I just do the research to find a close by RV dump to dump ASAP after heading towards home)
Will rarely have a bike rack on the 21’ Escape, however.
QUESTIONS:
one) Wanted to get some clever ideas about how to reduce our tongue weight (* * if need be* * )
Of course how I load the stuff… but… any clever ideas?
two) Where is the fresh water tank located? I know the amount of water in that can (?) reduce tongue weight, depending where it is.
three) on our MDX the hitch receiver is about 17” off the ground (to the center of the receiver)… I assume the e2 Fastway can be set up by ETI to account for this, and make the ball the right height for the 21’ Escape?
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate this forum, and all the good people on it.
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 05:18 PM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,232
|
Does your Acura specifically list a 500# max tongue weight? The Highlander specifies max trailer weight at 5000# and total weights of trailer, cargo, passenger, and vehicle (GCVW) but it makes no mention of max tongue weight. Since safe tongue weight can range up to 15% a trailers that weights 5000# could have a safe tongue weight as high as 750#.
With the WDH you will be moving weight off the tongue and onto the front wheels, so it all gets complex. Strangely Toyota says a Highlander only needs a WDH if the trailer weight is over 5000# - which would therefor be over the max weight. I figure they copy and pasted that out of some other manual.
We're planning on a 21' next year too, so I'll be in the same situation as you.
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 05:24 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: no fixed address, California
Trailer: 2017-21' Escape (sold) Casita 17' (sold)
Posts: 1,348
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoer
Does your Acura specifically list a 500# max tongue weight? ...
|
Yes, indeed.
I have a WDH with our 17' Casita, and i LOVE it... the WDH is, to me, an important thing, for a bunch of reasons. But that is a different debate, for a different thread.
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 06:26 PM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
|
The fresh tank is in the rear, so if you travel with it full it should reduce your tongue weight. Skip the front storage box that should save a lot of weight, but be careful, too light will result in sway.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 06:33 PM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
|
I don't think that there is an tongue weight problem with the 21'. Should be easy to have 10-15%.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 06:39 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by float5
I don't think that there is an tongue weight problem with the 21'. Should be easy to have 10-15%.
|
It's easy to get up there - no problem getting high enough. I think the problem to be avoided in this case is going too high in tongue weight. 15% of 4200 pounds would be 630 pounds... way too high for the tug.
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 06:48 PM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: no fixed address, California
Trailer: 2017-21' Escape (sold) Casita 17' (sold)
Posts: 1,348
|
yeah I'm hoping to be about 11% ..... 11% of 4200 is 462 lbs.
and yes the WDH will "lighten" the hitch weight, sort of.... but still I want to be in a good zone.
i think (?) i will get the front storage box, but only put light-ish things in it....
I also have never ever used more than 1/2 a bottle of propane on any trip.... so maybe the changeover 2nd one could be mostly empty..... Hmmmmm
or maybe even remove it, if need be......
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 06:51 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losangeles
Where is the fresh water tank located? I know the amount of water in that can (?) reduce tongue weight, depending where it is.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
The fresh tank is in the rear, so if you travel with it full it should reduce your tongue weight.
|
All Escape fresh water tanks are located under the floor, behind the axle(s), up in the step up in the floor in those models having that step. The 21' floor doesn't step up, but the front of the tank (as I recall) is roughly where the frame steps up, around the back of the wheel wells (fender openings). That puts it maybe one-quarter as far from the effective axle location (midway between the two set of wheels) as the coupler, so the amount water in that tank reduces the tongue weight is about one-quarter of the weight of water. For example, 30 US gallons or 250 pounds of water in the tank takes roughly 62 pounds off the hitch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
Skip the front storage box that should save a lot of weight, but be careful, too light will result in sway.
|
With a published dry hitch weight of 360 pounds (of only 3140 pounds of dry and empty trailer), it seems like it would be hard to end up with less than about 10% tongue weight unless excessive load is hung on the back bumper... but some people do that
That 360 pound spec is presumably without the storage box, because it is optional.
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 06:53 PM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoer
With the WDH you will be moving weight off the tongue and onto the front wheels, so it all gets complex.
|
Load is transferred, but all the mass stays in the same place. Hitch weight limits apply to the load on the hitch before the WD system is applied, so in that sense it is simple to know whether or not you are within the limit.
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 07:03 PM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losangeles
three) on our MDX the hitch receiver is about 17” off the ground (to the center of the receiver)… I assume the e2 Fastway can be set up by ETI to account for this, and make the ball the right height for the 21’ Escape?
|
Receiver heights are normally measured to the top of the receiver opening; the amount of "rise" or "drop" of a ball mount is how far the mounting surface for the ball is above or below the top of the opening. So that makes the MDX receiver height 18".
A 21' needs (by coincidence) about a 21 inch ball height. That's to the top of the ball, so allowing for a ball about 3" tall (so the base of the ball is 18" off the ground), you would need zero rise (or drop), which should be no problem at all.
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 07:06 PM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: no fixed address, California
Trailer: 2017-21' Escape (sold) Casita 17' (sold)
Posts: 1,348
|
thanks everyone for all the great info.....
it sounds as if I'll be OK...... (?)
I have read many threads here.... I seem to recall that some 21' owners measured around 500 lb actual hitch weight.... some a wee bit less.....
will search again for threads....
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 07:25 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
|
My Escape 21' weighed 500# on tongue and 3800 over the axles, combined was 4300#. The GVWR capacity is 4400# for the trailer. I travel with the fresh 50% full and the black empty and this weight was returning from Osoyoos with 2 weeks of "stuff" in the camper. My Escape 19 had a tongue weight of 400#, both trailers had the front storage box option which weighs maybe 45# and another 100# of cargo. But if you eliminate the front box, you have nowhere to carry you power cord, plastic levelers, water hoses, wheel chocks, shovel.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 08:21 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Marysville, Washington
Trailer: 2022 Coachmen Nova 20C
Posts: 652
|
You should have no trouble keeping the tongue weight below 500# if you pay attention to how you load it and weigh it often to figure out what needs to go where.
My 2014 21' with options, full propane and no water weighed 3600# total when I picked it up.... 3220# on the axles and 360# on the tongue.
Most of us 21 owners get into the 500# tongue weights because the underbed storage is so darn useful.... oh ya - that front box
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...html#post47134
__________________
Paul & Norma
2013 Escape 21 & 2014 Chevy Silverado - sold
2022 Coachmen Nova 20C
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 08:58 PM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Trailer: Escape 21 'Toto'
Posts: 301
|
Our 21's weights have been similar to those reported above. Even though our tug is rated to tow 6100 pounds, we, too, have to be careful to keep things within all the various capacity limits (for us it's the tug's GVWR that's toughest to manage).
We have the front storage box (and really wouldn't like to be without it) but we keep lightweight things there (hoses, lightweight folding furniture, lightweight wheel chocks, etc.). Heavier stuff (Anderson levelers) we learned to store further back. I agree that you could get by with one propane tank -- or at least one that's not very full -- it does seem to last and last.
Good luck to you LosAngeles -- we promise you're going to have a blast with your new Escape, and we'll see you out there.
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 09:00 PM
|
#15
|
Commercial Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 - "Felicity"
Posts: 2,945
|
Saw one trailer where the guy had replaced one of two propane tanks with a version of a 5 gallon bucket where he kept his tools.
__________________
Charlie Y
Need custom storage to your design? Don't drill holes!
www.RVWidgetWorks.com
|
|
|
02-22-2016, 10:13 PM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
I just refilled my second propane tank today.
Not sure how much use a bucket of tools would be if I ran out of propane in the middle of the night, 60 miles up a gravel road.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
02-23-2016, 01:43 AM
|
#17
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: no fixed address, California
Trailer: 2017-21' Escape (sold) Casita 17' (sold)
Posts: 1,348
|
thanks again everybody for all the great info.
|
|
|
02-23-2016, 10:21 AM
|
#18
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losangeles
thanks everyone for all the great info.....
it sounds as if I'll be OK...... (?)
I have read many threads here.... I seem to recall that some 21' owners measured around 500 lb actual hitch weight.... some a wee bit less.....
will search again for threads....
|
You can download an Excel spreadsheet of "Trailer Weights in the Real World" at my website. This was started by Frederick Simson at the Fiberglass Trailer Forum when he took a set of scales to rallies. He has retired, no longer has access to the scales, and gave me permission to make it available (and to add individual supplied weights). There are a few Escape 21's on the spreadsheet. Steve LaBroad provided an addition that lets you filter by different factors, then find averages, etc.
|
|
|
02-23-2016, 10:23 AM
|
#19
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 -- The Skylark. Towed by a 2014 Highlander
Posts: 1,159
|
We have been on the road about a month. We have filled three propane tanks in that time, always after I noticed that the regulator had switched to the other tank. I appreciate that the propane switches to the other tank rather than leaving us to get cold during the night. so I would be reluctant to have a single propane tank. YMMV.
__________________
Camping: Where you spend a small fortune to live like a homeless person.
|
|
|
02-23-2016, 10:33 AM
|
#20
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: O town, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 "Lightning"
Posts: 1,467
|
random thoughts:
- its not like the car explodes with a hitch weight of 501lb
- U shaped dinette would allow convenient inside tail storage
- I have a hard time getting my tongue weight to 500 (all twice that I have measured). No front box, usually bike on back and full fresh h2o
- my truck bed usually has the heavy stuff, so the relatively cramped underbed area is light weight stuff
ymmv
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|