Replacement Tires

[LeonW]

Originally Posted by LeonW

Eric,

When we got our trailer we asked about different tires because I liked the BF Goodridch tires that came on our 17. But was told it was not possible. When we picked up the trailer I decided to switch the spare to a chrome rim, and it took about 5 minutes. So my guess is that ETI has a bunch of tire mounted on rims and it would be hard to make an exception. Given that Rossue's tires were thin, I am going to double check mine before we leave in Jan. I think we are just under 20k miles.

And of course i meant Goodyear, not GoodRich. chalk it up to the joys of old age...

[thoer]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Our 2015 (Sept. model) 17A has Carlisle Radial Trail load range C, 4 ply tread, 2 ply sidewalls ( ST205/75 R15 ).
I have a utility trailer with Carlisles that have been overloaded, run on farm roads, and generally abused; they doing great.

Thanks Don. Apparently Escape is now putting different versions of Carlisles on different trailers based on what Rossue had on the 21. I'd have thought that they'd just buy all the same tires to make inventory simpler, but maybe the B rated bias ply one on dual axles models is now standard. Anyway, if they are still putting Radial Trail C rated on the 17 then it should be an easy ask to have them put onto a 21 and pay the difference.

Lying on the side of a busy highway changing a blowout has warped my tire sensitivity Thank goodness that local deputy happened along and sat back behind the trailer with his lights on for me.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by LeonW

And of course i meant Goodyear, not GoodRich. chalk it up to the joys of old age...

I remember Rich - he was a good guy!

[Greg A]

I'm pretty certain we got Carlisle load C on the 19 we just picked up.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Greg A

I'm pretty certain we got Carlisle load C on the 19 we just picked up.

Ok, I give up guessing on tires that are installed as standard now.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

One reason the original tires didn't last perhaps quite as long as I expected is that they are B load range, or 4-ply.

As long as the tires are used within their rated load, I can't imagine why more reinforcing cord would lead to longer tread life. Of course the higher-load tires could be made with thicker tread, but there's no obvious reason to do that so I wouldn't expect it.

The ply numbers, as you may know, are not the actual number of plies of reinforcing code, but just a "rating" tied back to the way tires were built decades ago. The load ranges are the meaningful values, with the ply ratings just being an alias for the same thing. A higher load range does mean more inflation pressure capacity, which means more load capacity, but does not indicate the number or sidewall plies or anything about the tread. They are not quality grades, or lifetime grades, but just load capacity ranges.

• Load Range A = 2-ply rating (typically 24 psi inflation)
• Load Range B = 4-ply rating (typically 35 psi inflation)
• Load Range C = 6-ply rating (typically 50 psi inflation)
• Load Range D = 8-ply rating (typically 65 psi inflation)
• etc.

Originally Posted by Rossue

Eric- see The Carlstar Group scroll down to Trailer Tire Sidewall Specifications. On our Carlisle tires it said 2 + 2 belts.
Edit: It might be that their B rated tires are only sold to OEM's for cost saving. As I said the tire store I shopped only stocked the D rated Carlisle for $100 each.

The number of plies may be 2 (in the sidewall), but that provides no indication of the load range. The actual load range is given explicitly in sidewall markings, and is probably Load Range C.

The Load Range G Michelin XRV tires on my motorhome run at up to 110 psi, and have a single-ply sidewall.

Originally Posted by thoer

I see my mistake, when I was shopping I only was looking at the RADIAL TRAIL RH tires, as that was what seemed to be their best one available. Carlisle does make a B rated in the bias ply SPORT TRAIL in that size. I was assuming that Escape was using the radial model on all the trailers, but apparently not.
...
I think when we get to start on a 21 I'll ask if paying extra for the radial model is possible when doing the build sheet.

No need to pay extra - as various owners have confirmed in this forum, Escape is using the Radial Trail RH. As far as I know, Escape has never put bias-ply tires of any kind on a trailer.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Greggo

Tires were quite a controversial topic on the Casita Forum a couple years ago. Blow out problems were disturbingly frequent, probably because of the single axle.

I think blowouts were common because these trailers were too heavy for the tires being used at the time. Escape uses larger tires (for a given trailer weight) than most travel trailer manufacturers, minimizing this issue; Casita has increased size since then, and many owners of earlier Casita 17's have gone to higher-capacity tires (often commercial type, not ST).

More tires mostly means more failures - there are simply more of them to have a problem.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

... finally decided to stick with the stock 205/75R15 in an ST.
...
Asked about Maxxis and they could get them and they did in one day. The ones I bought are the C load range 6-ply.

The new tires would then be: ST205/75R15 6PR TL M8008 ST RADIAL
This is a Load Range C tire, which means it get a "6-ply rating" description, but certainly does not have six sidewall plies. The ply rating only refers to sidewall plies, because it is a reference back to when tires didn't have belts at all - they were just bias-ply, not even bias-belted. The the same description from Maxxis applies to all sizes and load ranges of the M8008 and includes this:

Some sizes feature a 3-ply sidewall design for extra strength under demanding conditions.

In other words, this tire (the M8008, in any size or load range) normally has two sidewall plies, but some sizes and load ranges (maybe ST205/75R15 LRC but probably not) have three sidewall plies. That's fine: you don't want too many sidewall plies - particularly in a radial tire - because they cause heat buildup and increase rolling drag.

[Greggo]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I think blowouts were common because these trailers were too heavy for the tires being used at the time. Escape uses larger tires (for a given trailer weight) than most travel trailer manufacturers, minimizing this issue; Casita has increased size since then, and many owners of earlier Casita 17's have gone to higher-capacity tires (often commercial type, not ST).

More tires mostly means more failures - there are simply more of them to have a problem.

You're right. I followed that thread closely at the time, although I had no blow outs, they were common.

My takeaway that relates to Escapes or any other trailer I suppose was that towing safety is dependant on lots of things beside tread wear. Ross was right on to replace based on time and mileage.

[Rossue]

Who knew that ply ratings were alias for cotton layers? The other item if you dig down is that there is no tread wear rating DOT requirement for ST tires making it a guessing game among tire manufacturers. Tandem axle trailers have more wear in the rear tires from turning evidently so am going to rotate them front-to-rear in the future.
BTW Brian, would you please type in the following to make us sure you are not a robot -
T H A N K S

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by thoer

Ok, I give up guessing on tires that are installed as standard now.

Probably a good idea. I think longevity is more based on keeping to pressure, running cool, no faster than maximum speed and checking often for road debris stuck in the treads.

Beyond that, I just say... they're black and round

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Who knew that ply ratings were alias for cotton layers? The other item if you dig down is that there is no tread wear rating DOT requirement for ST tires making it a guessing game among tire manufacturers. Tandem axle trailers have more wear in the rear tires from turning evidently so am going to rotate them front-to-rear in the future.
BTW Brian, would you please type in the following to make us sure you are not a robot -
T H A N K S

T H A N K S, Ross.
Not a robot... or maybe one good enough to pass a Turing test.

A scary part of this is that some sizes of trailer tires (for 8" ad 12" wheels) are still built as they were many decades ago... and might really have that many layers of fabric reinforcement.

I suspect that which axle's set wears faster depends on the trailer's pitch and therefore axle loading... but that's never quite even so the rotation makes sense to me.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

... Escape is using the Radial Trail RH. As far as I know, Escape has never put bias-ply tires of any kind on a trailer.

So now I'm still wondering how Rossue could have had B rated tires originally?

Originally Posted by Donna D.

...
Beyond that, I just say... they're black and round

And sometimes blow out spectacularly for no apparent reason even when well cared for

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thoer

So now I'm still wondering how Rossue could have had B rated tires originally?

I believe that the "B" load range conclusion was a misunderstanding, and that his original tires were Carlisle Radial Trail RH in Load Range C as provided on other Escapes ...with 2-ply sidewalls plus 2 belt plies, as described earlier:

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Our 2015 (Sept. model) 17A has Carlisle Radial Trail load range C, 4 ply tread, 2 ply sidewalls ( ST205/75 R15 ).

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I believe that the "B" load range conclusion was a misunderstanding, and that his original tires were Carlisle Radial Trail RH in Load Range C as provided on other Escapes ...with 2-ply sidewalls plus 2 belt plies, as described earlier:

Ok, that makes sense.

[Rossue]

Went out to look at sidewalls of the Maxxis and the one Carlisle leftover as a spare.
They are both C rated, and although the Carlisle tire was not one of the originals on the trailer as Dexter paid for a replacement, I now believe they were all Load Range C tires.

For the sidewalls, both Maxxis and Carlisle state 2 plys polyester. For the tread the Carlisle is 2 plys polyester + 2 plys steel. The Maxxis are 2 plys polyester + 2 plys steel + 1 ply nylon.

Sorry for the confusion.

[float5]

Yes, our tires had 50 psi on our 2011 and the same on our 2015 which indicates C load.