Sway control anyone?

[Brian B-P]

Even taking your foot entirely off the accelerator pedal may cause enough deceleration to push back on the trailer, further destabilizing it. The key is to ease off on power, not just lift right off. Many drivers are not capable of doing that; once a trailer reaches the point of instability, I think that the best we can hope for is that the driver will apply the manual trailer brake lever.

[float5]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

That's true. I'm talking about foot off the gas, and apply the trailer brakes manually. In any case, none of that happened here.

When one of these situations suddenly develops, even if the driver knows to not hit the tug brakes, it may be more than enough to try to keep control of the vehicle. The driver may simply feel that he/she can't risk trying to use one hand for the manual trailer brakes, if there is even time to think about it.

[Defenestrator]

I don't see any sign of blown tires either, even watching a couple times full-screen. They also don't seem to be going terribly fast - right lane, and other traffic is passing them. What I did notice is that the trailer has an awful lot of rear overhang behind the axles, which means it's probably really easy to load in a way that gives them way too little tongue weight.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Defenestrator

What I did notice is that the trailer has an awful lot of rear overhang behind the axles, which means it's probably really easy to load in a way that gives them way too little tongue weight.

Good point. There are many trailers sold today that are essentially nothing more than a badly designed corrugated sheet metal covered box, and are inherently unstable unless you're very careful with how they're loaded and how they're towed. But, they're cheap, and cheap sells.

[Brian B-P]

Although the trailer has a long rear overhang, it also has a long front: it's simply long. The proportions are fine - the axle centre is well rearward of the centre of the trailer body length. Some trailers with a rear kitchen tend to be rear-heavy, but this one apparently has a normal kitchen in the middle.

The stacked windows on the street side near the back suggests possibly a bunk model. That's fine by itself, but bunks can easily be misused as storage areas, leading to they type of loading problem which Elliott suggested as a possibility.

[Defenestrator]

Largely the additional opportunity for overloading, yeah, plus just the size of the trailer relative to the tow vehicle. Longer is worse, though, even given the same proportions: the further the weight is from the axles, the longer the moment arm is for that weight.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Defenestrator

Longer is worse, though, even given the same proportions: the further the weight is from the axles, the longer the moment arm is for that weight.

Very true. But length is not a design problem, just a capacity issue. An Escape at that length, following all of the established practices of Escape design, would not be much different.

I don't think we know enough about this incident to know the cause, and so we can't learn from the mistake.

[rubicon327]

Ironically after starting this thread I had my own episode of sway this past weekend. Fully loaded for a trip and traveling about 65 mph I hit a section of roadway that was downhill and a little rough. I think the trailer loosened up on the ball slightly due to the downhill and was rocked side to side just enough to start a bit of sway. Enough to feel it in the steering well and get a little concerned. Thankfully since this thread I knew to lift off the gas slowly and used the brake controller to brake only the trailer. It calmed down fairly quick but enough for white knuckles. Fresh water tank 2/3 full. I wonder if my full cooler and some firewood over the axles could have been better distributed toward the front for some more tongue weight. Only using a sway bar, no WDH. Thoughts?

[float5]

Do you have loaded wieights for trailer and tug and the tongue weight from scales?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by float5

Do you have loaded wieights for trailer and tug and the tongue weight from scales?

No, but last time we weighed trailer it was 3600 lbs with 360 lb tongue weight. This was tanks empty and no food, clothes or firewood. After all of my mods including some reproportioning of weight with addition of split A/C system and removal of overhead A/C I should probably reweigh. Towing with 2005 4Runner SR5 V6.

[float5]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

No, but last time we weighed trailer it was 3600 lbs with 360 lb tongue weight. This was tanks empty and no food, clothes or firewood. After all of my mods including some reproportioning of weight with addition of split A/C system and removal of overhead A/C I should probably reweigh. Towing with 2005 4Runner SR5 V6.

I never want to be right on the edge like that. I always want 11% or 12% if I can get it so that small changes will not put us below. You know that you have up to 15%. Might as well use some of that leeway between 10% and 15%. Then you usually won't have to worry about it. But we have also been at 10% at times and below where we had to add weight.

[thoer]

Very glad to hear you got it under control quickly and safely.

On a 21 I find the amount of water in the fresh tank can make larger than I expected changes in tongue weight. The Sherline scale has been well worth the investment to check weight in different load configurations.

[Jim Bennett]

You should be just fine at 10% tongue weight, nothing wrong with that, it is what I shoot for somewhere between 9-11%. I suspect that with water in the tank like Eric eluded too, you likely were less than that. The 19 is much more tail heavy naturally than the 21, thus the placement of the batteries in each. I know when I added my 1UP rack and a couple bikes, before I used weight distribution, I could feel that it was tending to sway, so moved a lot of weight forward under the dinette to compensate, and all was fine.

Glad to hear you knew well what to do when it happens. It has forever been drilled into my brain to manually work the brake controller, and in a few situation in the past has been very beneficial.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Ironically after starting this thread I had my own episode of sway this past weekend. Fully loaded for a trip and traveling about 65 mph I hit a section of roadway that was downhill and a little rough. I think the trailer loosened up on the ball slightly due to the downhill and was rocked side to side just enough to start a bit of sway. Enough to feel it in the steering well and get a little concerned. Thankfully since this thread I knew to lift off the gas slowly and used the brake controller to brake only the trailer. It calmed down fairly quick but enough for white knuckles. Fresh water tank 2/3 full. I wonder if my full cooler and some firewood over the axles could have been better distributed toward the front for some more tongue weight. Only using a sway bar, no WDH. Thoughts?

Great to hear how you controlled it Steve, by easing up on the accelerator while applying the trailer brakes manually.

Besides shifting some cargo toward the tongue, I'm wondering if you might benefit from a WDH (Using the "general" rule that if your trailer weighs more than 50% of your tow vehicle, a WDH is indicated). Your 4-Runner (at around 4200 lbs) and your 19 (at around 3600 lbs) would indicate that a WDH would be beneficial. Distribute the weight evenly across all axles, and tongue light or not, I think you could have potentially avoided the issue.

I know on my 19, with a trailer weight of 3700 lbs and a tongue weight of 375 lbs, and an Andersen hitch, there has never been even a hint of sway.

[rubicon327]

Thanks all. Will reweigh the trailer and may invest in the Sherline scale. Given my major mod with the mini-split A/C which had me relocate the batteries inside on passenger side and remove the overhead unit I'm going to see about getting weights on each set of wheels too if possible to understand side-to-side proportions. I'll bet you are right though about the tongue on the lighter side. We have a Stowaway carrier out back on the hitch with contents that add up quick and the fresh water was also a factor. Putting my full cooler and firewood up under the dinette instead of in the aisle near the axle would have helped too.

[float5]

Yes, a Sherline is nice to have. Once you get the other weights, you may not be making any more big changes and then a Sherline can be used once in a while instead of needing truck scales.

There were 19's that had problems due to battery weight and water tank weight and the batteries were then put in the front box. Also, anything on the back can be a possible sway problem, so what you mention on that might have caused it or added to it.