Tacoma or F150 for a 21?

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Northcoaster

Oh, yeah, comfy seats are a must!

I found the Tacoma seats in my 08 TRD OffRoad fairly comfortable on long trips, albeit not quite as good as either my old 92 Volvo or our current 93/94 Mercedes E class, but I like very firm seats that are anatomically correct. My wife did not much care for the Tacoma seats and used bolsters and cushions.

When I got the truck used, it had these TRD seat covers where the main part was like hard rubber, neoprene or something, a few 1000 miles later, I took those seat covers off, and the original grey fabric SR5 style seats were immaculate, so we tossed the covers in the garage and enjoyed the 'new' seats on our 8 year old truck. 2 years and 20000 more miles later, they were still in VERY good shape, especially when I shop vacced, hit them with Zepp AdvancedOxy spray carpet cleaner, shop vac again, and like new all over. did the same to the carpets and mats. Buyer, one of my son's mid 20s friends who was moving back east and wanted the truck for the move, was /really/ happy for a 10 year old 36000 mile truck that had been very well maintained and everything was fresh. KO2 tires, airbags and bilsteins, too. It had the rare 6 speed stick mated to the 4.0L V6, the last year with the push button manual locker on the rear axle, next year got auto traction control which by many reports wasn't as good.

[Northcoaster]

Originally Posted by Meandering Minstrel

I pulled my 18' trailer with a Honda Ridgeline. It worked OK. I later sold the Ridgeline and bought a Ram 1500 Ecodiesel. I get almost as good of mileage towing my trailer now as I got with the Honda NOT towing anything. I would never go back to a gasoline engine. Chevy, Ford, and Dodge all make pickups with small diesel engines now. Ram is probably the best overall since they've been doing it the longest, but all 3 will be excellent towing vehicles.

My husband has been adamantly opposed to diesel—until now, thanks to all of your input. Our list of trucks to consider is now quite a bit longer. Such helpful input. Thanks, all!

[alanmalk]

My tow vehicle is a 2014 Tacoma, used to tow a E'21. It is also used as my daily driver, my off-road vehicle, my camping tent when going solo, and my haul fertilizer to the garden vehicle. So it has to be modestly good at all tasks.

Driving up the Colorado passes at 11,000 feet is a challenge, made a bit easier by the manual transmission (also a handy feature when going down the same passes.) But in the high country of Colorado I do not do much passing and am constrained by the limited power to driving with the 18-wheelers. That's when I envy the diesel power pickups mentioned above. Some day...

--
Alan

[Northcoaster]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

We went from a Toyota Sequoia to Expedition 2018 with a 2nd generation 3.5ecoboost with 10speed tranny we get 14-15 mpg traveling at 65-70mph with a E21 The major differences is the IRS on Expedition instead of leaf springs. Go with the 2.7 eco boost and get better mpg
Tell the dealer you want to experience the feel of trailer towing

Hi Jenny,
Curious about this advice re the dealer. How does that work? Is there a way to experience the feel short of actually towing something? I can't imagine a dealer letting me test drive a truck with something behind it. Pretty sure I'd be too scared to try it, anyway!

[cpaharley2008]

I think Jenny was saying that the larger Expedition with the larger motor feels like you are not towing anything, whereas the smaller motor will at least let you know you are towing something.

[Retired2lake]

Greetings,
I had a 2012 Tacoma with a 4L engine that I pulled our 4,500lb boat with when we first bought it. The truck would pull the boat, but got less than 10mpg and had to work hard going up hills. After doing significant research on tow vehicles, I bought a 2019 F-150 with the 3.5 eco boost and max tow package to pull our new 2019 Escape 19’. The Tacoma had 266lb-ft of torque at 4,000 rpm, while the F-150 has 470lb-ft of torque at 3,500 rpm. The F-150 has a 10 speed transmission and bigger brakes than the Tacoma. I also liked the 4 wheel disc brakes of the F-150 over the 2 wheel disc / 2 wheel drum brakes of the Tacoma. We picked our 19’-er up in June and pulled it through a number of mountain passes in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Montana on the way back to Texas. I’m very happy I chose the F-150. It may be overkill, but it is really solid and stable when towing. It easily climbs steep passes and the tow/haul mode coupled with the 10 speed transmission is a great combination going down steep mountain passes. The engine does almost all the braking and you hardly have to use the brakes. We got between 11-14mpg on the trip depending on the wind and how much we were climbing. The truck is also a good daily driver for me, because I get between 21-22 the way I drive it when I’m not towing. At best, my Tacoma got 20-21mpg as a daily driver. Anyway, the F-150 was the right choice for me. Good luck with your decision.

[Northcoaster]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I think Jenny was saying that the larger Expedition with the larger motor feels like you are not towing anything, whereas the smaller motor will at least let you know you are towing something.

Ah, got it! Thank you! #embarrassed

[BDE]

Hi there,
I thought I would chime in as much like Retired2lake, we just sold our 2007 4.0L Tacoma and bought a new F-150 3.5L EcoBoost. Our rig is a 21’ Escape with a boat loader and 12’ aluminum boat over the bed. We purchased the Tacoma new, had practically zero issues with it over 12 years and appreciated the excellent resale value when we sold it. During our time with it, the Taco hauled a tent trailer, carried an import size camper and we spent two seasons towing the Escape. I will tell anyone who will listen to buy a Tacoma however the F-150 is (literally) in another class as a tow vehicle.
We live near Vancouver, BC and find ourselves climbing mountains wherever we go. The Tacoma was always a stable tow vehicle however it worked very hard up long steep grades and had no power in reserve should one have needed it. I would describe the braking as merely sufficient with one having to leave more space than expected when accounting for stopping distances with trailer. Most concerning for us was how the payload was rapidly eaten up by tongue weight, boat, equipment and adult beverages.
The F150? As expected with a step up to a full-size there is a night and day difference in regards to power and braking. The seat-of-the-pants meter can easily read that the F150 accelerates faster uphill with the boat and trailer than the Tacoma would empty (heading downhill with a tailwind). To echo Retired2lake’s comments I was very impressed with how the tow/haul mode maintained downhill speed with little brake application required. I am no speed demon however it is very comforting knowing that there is extra power and braking in reserve.
I am taking a lot of ribbing from friends/family for going away from Toyota (would have bought a Tundra however the basic mechanics are rather long in the tooth) but we are so far very happy with our upgrade. I wish you luck with you vehicle hunt!

[jnfrombigt]

I have a 2015 RAM 1500 crew cab 4X2 EcoDiesel. On the way to Chilliwack we did some side trip exploring with a lot of time in the mountains and our average both trip computer and actual miles over actual gallons was 25-26 mpg. The distance was a little over 3800 miles. On the return trip towing a 5.0TA just using the trip computer we averaged 18 mpg. The return trip was a little over 5000 miles. In the fall RAM is coming out with a new EcoDiesel and the preliminary numbers indicate that the new half ton RAM will have a higher towing capacity than either my 1994 or 2004 RAM 2500s both with the legendary Cummins engine. I'll wait about three years to get one low mileage used but I know what my next truck will be.

[yangstyle]

We bought a 2018 F150 to pull our 21. We went with the 5.0 L engine because it is not our daily driver, if it was we might have gone with an eco boost. It came with a 3.73 rear end which probably is a little harder on gas mileage but it pulls really well. Ours was on the lot on sale but the only thing I might have changed would be the rear ratio, a 3.55 would probably be good enough and would probably help with the mileage.
Like others have said it also helps with slowing down in the mountains. We got power bucket seats for both front seats and they really help out on long drives. It's the most comfortable vehicle I have ever had. We get around 11 to 14 us mpg towing depending on how windy it is and or if we are in the mountains. Speed also makes a difference, once i go over 60 mph the mileage suffers.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by yangstyle

We bought a 2018 F150 to pull our 21. We went with the 5.0 L engine because it is not our daily driver, if it was we might have gone with an eco boost. It came with a 3.73 rear end which probably is a little harder on gas mileage but it pulls really well. Ours was on the lot on sale but the only thing I might have changed would be the rear ratio, a 3.55 would probably be good enough and would probably help with the mileage.
Like others have said it also helps with slowing down in the mountains. We got power bucket seats for both front seats and they really help out on long drives. It's the most comfortable vehicle I have ever had. We get around 11 to 14 us mpg towing depending on how windy it is and or if we are in the mountains. Speed also makes a difference, once i go over 60 mph the mileage suffers.

A lower numerically rear end (3.31 vs 4.11) will lug more in the same gear when pulling and the gears are further apart giving you less options on gears. That rear end only counts in the final drive and I don't need to travel at 80 mph to justify a 3.31. Our six speed 2015 F150 with 3.5 EB has a 3.31 (?) rear end, and that's the only thing I would change. Because of the 3.31 rear end I have to lock out 6th gear at 55 mph to get good fuel mileage and stop the constant shifting. I NEVER lug an engine, except for rare, brief periods. Below 1,500 rpm's the engine lugs, but hums perfectly at 17-2,000 rpm's. At 62 mph 6th gear is still questionable. Today's 10 speed would have closer ratio gears for better gas mileage, but I would probably lockout a couple of gears at 55 mph.

In my youth, I had a 68 Porsche with a wide ratio transmission that could go over 160 mph. I got it up to 140 once and that was enough. It was a dog though at normal speeds. I took it to Dune Buggy Supply in Minneapolis and had them install close ratio gears. It had a top end of around 110 mph. HUGE difference in performance and got better gas mileage!

Am I the only one here who's disappointed in the 3.31 for pulling? It would be interesting to see if any are happy pulling at 55-65 mph with a 4.11 rear end.

We also have/love the power bucket seats. It also has a functional console with the shifter on the column giving more room on the console. Just looked at trading for a new 2019, but $20,000 to boot buys a lot of repairs. Perhaps in November it will get down to $15,000 where I consider trading. However, we love this truck and the new one would have to be configured identically.

The F150 is my daily driver only when Terry is not using her Pious (21 mpg vs 50 mpg), otherwise all it does is pull our campers. Today's EcoBoost pulls like a diesel, without the added costs and the other diesel heartaches.

Enjoy,

Perry

[RicVic]

I just got a 2019 F150 ecoboost to replace my 2011 F150. Basically the same truck with updates plus a 6.5 foot bed for the fifth wheel and a little more room. I have the 355 rear end. It works well, lots of power and stability. In order to get the 373, I would have had to give up other things that I wanted. It really doesn’t make sense but every time you change one thing, the order forms changes something else. I am not sure what you would have to do to get a411 rear end. To get the heavy load package, you have to order one of the base line trucks. That doesn’t make much sense either. Oh well, I got a great pickup.

As far as diesel pickups go, you really have to need one to make them worth the buck. Between the extra cost and maintenance/service fees, they just didn’t pencil out for me. Also in a half ton pickup truck, the diesel have a lot Less power than the eco boost F150’s.

[cpaharley2008]

I had a 2009 Ram 1500 5.7 hemi, 3:55 rear and 5 speed auto, 12 mpg towing or not. Traded in on 2014 Ram 1500, 3:21 rear, 8 speed auto and get 18-20 unladen and avg 15 towing, big difference, at least to me.

[Northcoaster]

Originally Posted by Retired2lake

Greetings,
I had a 2012 Tacoma with a 4L engine that I pulled our 4,500lb boat with when we first bought it. The truck would pull the boat, but got less than 10mpg and had to work hard going up hills. After doing significant research on tow vehicles, I bought a 2019 F-150 with the 3.5 eco boost and max tow package to pull our new 2019 Escape 19’. The Tacoma had 266lb-ft of torque at 4,000 rpm, while the F-150 has 470lb-ft of torque at 3,500 rpm. The F-150 has a 10 speed transmission and bigger brakes than the Tacoma. I also liked the 4 wheel disc brakes of the F-150 over the 2 wheel disc / 2 wheel drum brakes of the Tacoma. We picked our 19’-er up in June and pulled it through a number of mountain passes in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Montana on the way back to Texas. I’m very happy I chose the F-150. It may be overkill, but it is really solid and stable when towing. It easily climbs steep passes and the tow/haul mode coupled with the 10 speed transmission is a great combination going down steep mountain passes. The engine does almost all the braking and you hardly have to use the brakes. We got between 11-14mpg on the trip depending on the wind and how much we were climbing. The truck is also a good daily driver for me, because I get between 21-22 the way I drive it when I’m not towing. At best, my Tacoma got 20-21mpg as a daily driver. Anyway, the F-150 was the right choice for me. Good luck with your decision.

So helpful! Thanks!

[Northcoaster]

Originally Posted by RicVic

I just got a 2019 F150 ecoboost to replace my 2011 F150. Basically the same truck with updates plus a 6.5 foot bed for the fifth wheel and a little more room. I have the 355 rear end. It works well, lots of power and stability. In order to get the 373, I would have had to give up other things that I wanted. It really doesn’t make sense but every time you change one thing, the order forms changes something else. I am not sure what you would have to do to get a411 rear end. To get the heavy load package, you have to order one of the base line trucks. That doesn’t make much sense either. Oh well, I got a great pickup.

As far as diesel pickups go, you really have to need one to make them worth the buck. Between the extra cost and maintenance/service fees, they just didn’t pencil out for me. Also in a half ton pickup truck, the diesel have a lot Less power than the eco boost F150’s.

Wow, so much knowledge here. Appreciate all the input--thank you!

[Northcoaster]

Originally Posted by BDE

Hi there,
I thought I would chime in as much like Retired2lake, we just sold our 2007 4.0L Tacoma and bought a new F-150 3.5L EcoBoost. Our rig is a 21’ Escape with a boat loader and 12’ aluminum boat over the bed. We purchased the Tacoma new, had practically zero issues with it over 12 years and appreciated the excellent resale value when we sold it. During our time with it, the Taco hauled a tent trailer, carried an import size camper and we spent two seasons towing the Escape. I will tell anyone who will listen to buy a Tacoma however the F-150 is (literally) in another class as a tow vehicle.
We live near Vancouver, BC and find ourselves climbing mountains wherever we go. The Tacoma was always a stable tow vehicle however it worked very hard up long steep grades and had no power in reserve should one have needed it. I would describe the braking as merely sufficient with one having to leave more space than expected when accounting for stopping distances with trailer. Most concerning for us was how the payload was rapidly eaten up by tongue weight, boat, equipment and adult beverages.
The F150? As expected with a step up to a full-size there is a night and day difference in regards to power and braking. The seat-of-the-pants meter can easily read that the F150 accelerates faster uphill with the boat and trailer than the Tacoma would empty (heading downhill with a tailwind). To echo Retired2lake’s comments I was very impressed with how the tow/haul mode maintained downhill speed with little brake application required. I am no speed demon however it is very comforting knowing that there is extra power and braking in reserve.
I am taking a lot of ribbing from friends/family for going away from Toyota (would have bought a Tundra however the basic mechanics are rather long in the tooth) but we are so far very happy with our upgrade. I wish you luck with you vehicle hunt!

Sounds like we're similar in our attachment to Toyota, so this is helpful, too. The Tundra is due for an overhaul, apparently... but there are a lot of F-150 fans on this forum. We are paying attention to all of this! Thank you!

[yangstyle]

I don't think you can go wrong now a days with any of the truck manufactures. They all seem pretty good, and they all seem really expensive.
I went with Ford mostly because I have driven Ford's through work for the last 15 years and they have been trouble free with just basic maintenance. Also I got a really good deal on one.
My current work F150 with a 5.0L I have had for just over 5 years now and mechanically its been great. The seats are not comfortable though, they do not even have a lumbar adjustment as they are cheap fleet vehicles and after 2 plus hours now I really notice they get uncomfortable. Some of that could be due to my advancing age I suppose.

[vmomara]

We have a 2019 ram crew cab hemi, 2 w.d. 8 Spd. w/3.21 rear to pull our 21 'escape. Just returned from the N. Ga. mountains averaging 15 mpg. Flat land avg. 18 mpg. The quietest, most comfortable and capable tow vehicle I have ever owned imo. The tacoma for me was a great truck but not enough truck. A 4 hr. trip would wear you out.

[Farther]

Anything is potentially a compromise in your tow vehicle. Three primary factors for me was a pickup, my greatest use, and purchase price. My tow vehicle is my only vehicle and I didn't want to be saddled with driving an oversize vehicle for 99% of my time and the full-sized vehicles were just more money than I wanted to spend.

For me, it came down to the Tacoma and the Ridgeline. I have had only good experiences with Toyota trucks having had a preTaco pickup and two new FJ40 LandCruisers. Honda is still a relative youngster in the pickup market.

The Ridgeline handles and rides so much better than the Tacoma and I don't plan on any rock crawling or other serious offroad use. The Ridgeline checks all my boxes and its towing and tongue weight meet the specs for my future 21.

Full disclosure, I only used the manufacturers' build apps for determining the price and not visiting showrooms and I have only towed an estimated 3000# with the Ridgeline.

[John in Santa Cruz]

you can't compare final drive ratios unless you also know the transmission gearing.

the newest Ford trucks, 2017 + F150s, have 10 speeds, with extremely close ratio steps. These *only* use the torque converter at a stop in 1st, once you're rolling, the clutch locks out the TC, and from then on shifts are done by momentarily letting up on the torque via engine management, and hopping to the next gear, this happens so fast and the RPM changes are so small, its very smooth. Gears 8,9, and 10 are OD ratios, less than 1:1, with the top gear being 0.63:1 ... my 2002 F250 4-speed diesel has a 4th/OD ratio of 0.71

I've heard next year they are coming out with a superduty version of this transmission, for the F250/f350 class trucks.