Tesla truck to revolutionize RV towing?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by arniesea

I for one am looking forward to the rumored 2021 Tundra hybrid. (Toyota is almost as tight lipped as Apple releasing information about new products!) It is rumored to have a drive motor for each wheel with a V6 power plant. We will see ...

After a quick online search, I don't see any credible sources reporting a motor-per-wheel hybrid powertrain; I suspect that's just an enthusiast wish-list item, rather than a serious prediction let alone a real plan. A turbocharged V6 is certainly a possibility, and a heavier-duty version of the hybrid system of the Lexus LS is also possible, although this hybrid possibility has been available to Toyota for many years and they've never chosen to put it in a truck before.

The LS hybrid system is a typical Toyota power-split, followed by a 4-speed mechanical transmission to keep things closer to their optimal operating speeds; AWD versions have a conventional transfer case on the transmission output.

[gklott]

Originally Posted by Bakes99

That being said, I really want one, lol.

So do we. The potential for EV towing is one reason we added a 19' ETI model to complement our 30' Airstream.

Hope they come sooner than later.

73/gus

[Mike Lewis]

About a month ago I saw an article about a wheel-motor system under development. I don't remember the details. At the time I thought this was the way to go, thinking it would be more efficient than a hybrid with a mechanical drive train, but Brian corrected me. I still like the simplicity of it, though.

[Mike Lewis]

Found the article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49958457

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

About a month ago I saw an article about a wheel-motor system under development. I don't remember the details. At the time I thought this was the way to go, thinking it would be more efficient than a hybrid with a mechanical drive train, but Brian corrected me. I still like the simplicity of it, though.

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

Found the article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49958457

In-wheel motors save space in the vehicle's interior (by putting the motors in the wheels), and eliminate the jointed axle shafts, but they do require a series configuration in the case of a hybrid, as Mike has mentioned.

The problems with motors in the wheels, some of which are briefly mentioned in the BBC article, are:

• the motor must be either very large to have enough power running at only wheel speed, or a set of reduction gears must be included to allow a faster-turning and so smaller motor
• excess unsprung mass (mass which moves with the wheels instead supported by the springs and moving with the body), compounded by the large size or the added gearing, which hampers suspension performance
• fitting everything inside the wheel, including the motor, possibly gearing, and brakes
• connecting high-current high-voltage power cables and cooling fluid hoses which accommodate suspension movement (and steering if used at the front)

These are generally tolerable issues for low-speed vehicles and heavy trucks and buses, but not for typical passenger cars. There are a few companies making, or offering to make, wheel motors for cars, but none have worked well enough to be used in a production vehicle. That may change eventually, but for at least the next few years I wouldn't expect any EV or hybrid to use them. The supposedly coming wave of battery-electric pickup trucks won't use them, and it probably wouldn't help the vehicle design much if they did.

[SamIam]

From Seeking Alpha site.

EV truck talk

The buzz is building up for Tesla's (NASDAQ:TSLA) truck event that is scheduled for tomorrow night in California. Pricing on the Tesla truck will be closely watched with EV startup Rivian setting a starting price of $69K. Details on towing capacity, power output, and off-road capabilities will also be crucially important as Tesla looks to compete with Ford's (NYSE:F) F-150 line and Ram (NYSE:FCAU) trucks.

In other electric truck news, startup Nikola claimed yesterday to have made a huge breakthrough in battery technology that it predicts will disrupt the market. Nikola says it's in discussions with customers for truck orders that could fill production slots for more than ten years and propel Nikola to become the top truck manufacturer in the world by revenue. The next-gen battery technology is also said to have the potential to increase the range of current EV passenger cars to 600 miles from 300 miles.

[Brian B-P]

I wouldn't expect any valid information from this event. In particular, any schedule and price information will be outright fiction, given Telsa's track record in this area. I like this comment from Seeking Alpha:

Tesla is known to make outlandish promises, but the Tesla Pickup may be the wildest yet. When reality sets in, Tesla may find a rude awakening.

My guess is that the Nikola Motor Company announcement is entirely unsubstantiated fluff, since that's what this company does. For those not familiar with them, Nikola motor was going to build natural gas hybrid truck, then suddenly shifted to a hydrogen fuel truck, and now claims to be a battery expert, all while raising billions in funding and announcing orders for thousands of trucks but putting no actual trucks on the road. They haven't even started building their factory. Electrek is blatantly pro-EV and tends to be very optimistic, but even they ridicule this set of Nikola Motor claims.

By the way, Tesla and Nikola Motors are the two companies that have branded themselves after Nikola Tesla, despite having absolutely no connection to that inventor.

[mtbmitch]

I like the idea of lots of torque in an e vehicle. Though the amount of energy to produce the lithium batteries is much more than a gas vehicle. Studies done show that one would have to keep an electric 181,000 miles to exceed the carbon foot print of a comparable gasser.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by mtbmitch

I like the idea of lots of torque in an e vehicle. Though the amount of energy to produce the lithium batteries is much more than a gas vehicle. Studies done show that one would have to keep an electric 181,000 miles to exceed the carbon foot print of a comparable gasser.

Wow, that is an interesting segue for those touting the environment foot print of carbon vehicles vs electric.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by mtbmitch

... Though the amount of energy to produce the lithium batteries is much more than a gas vehicle. Studies done show that one would have to keep an electric 181,000 miles to exceed the carbon foot print of a comparable gasser.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Wow, that is an interesting segue for those touting the environment foot print of carbon vehicles vs electric.

Yes, but it is also completely unsupported by any reference. I would be interested in seeing links to those studies.

[Greg A]

There is always resistance to change of any kind, but think of all the progress that never would exist if it had been influenced by those groups.

We just shuttered a huge coal fired power plant in AZ, that some folks were trying to prevent from closing. The arguments to not move forward to modern power generation methods just didn’t work anymore, especially from the $$ standpoint.

Bill Gates just released a huge development on focused solar generation that could change manufacturing in the foreseeable future.

The EV’s or something similar are the next future and like cell phones and other innovative products will go through early issues as they evolve, but it’s long past time for innovations in transportation as well as other areas.

I’m excited to see where we’re going, and not stay stuck in fossil fuels.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Greg A

We just shuttered a huge coal fired power plant in AZ, that some folks were trying to prevent from closing. The arguments to not move forward to modern power generation methods just didn’t work anymore, especially from the $$ standpoint.

I'll just note that those methods are, to a large extent, just burning natural gas instead of coal... so still fossil fuel.

Originally Posted by Greg A

Bill Gates just released a huge development on focused solar generation that could change manufacturing in the foreseeable future.

The recent Heliogen work in which Gates has apparently invested is on concentrated solar energy for manufacturing, not for power generation. Similar concentrated solar thermal plants for electrical power have been around for decades but have had a lot of problems, so the current trend in solar power is to simple photovoltaic panel farms.

[Defenestrator]

Welp, some answers at last. It looks a bit ridiculous, but "up to 3500lbs" payload is pretty impressive.

The three versions are kind of oddly segmented. Same payload, but more range and power (and therefore towing capacity. Even the longest-range version at 500 miles is kind of pushing it for a travel trailer though, if you assume towing mileage is about half of regular mileage. I'm assuming that big battery eats pretty far into payload, too.

I really like the idea of a truck with tons of torque, good efficiency, independent suspension, low center of gravity, etc (so basically, not miserable to drive). I'm just not sure this one quite hits the spot in terms of cost and capabilities.

[gbaglo]

If you think North Americans are obese now, wait until EV really takes hold and there are drivers and their passengers sitting in diners, shovelling in food, waiting for their vehicle to charge.
We'll need that increased payload.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

If you think North Americans are obese now, wait until EV really takes hold and there are drivers and their passengers sitting in diners, shovelling in food, waiting for their vehicle to charge.
We'll need that increased payload.

oh, what DO you mean??

[John in Santa Cruz]

ps, the kid in the middle is our oldest, who just finished his PhD in Geology on Friday.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

ps, the kid in the middle is our oldest, who just finished his PhD in Geology on Friday.

Congrats!

[jumboscott]

From LA Auto Show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwvDOdBHYBw

[Greg A]

Too early to tell yet, they still have to complete the unibody design, and haven’t built out the interior finish which is why it isn’t shown, The price points are excellent for introduction if they hold, and there is still the range issues towing that we don’t know yet. But, quite revolutionary on the design with the built in bed cover and loading ramp. As the demo shows, it ends getting dings in parking lots.
We need one of our photoshop experts to shop an Escape on the back of this.

[Bobbie54]

Check out the Rivian.