Torque in a mid sized SUV…. looking for our next midsized SUV - BMW X5d vs Audi Q7

[cpaharley2008]

On the recent return from Osoyoos, I ran into low octane and ethanol gas in Iowa, Illinois, South Dakota, otherwise know as the corn states. I do not have the flex fuel motor and I need at least mid grade, 89 octane or better. It was hard to find in those 3 states and I found only certain stations had fuel that I could use.

[Sean Murry]

Don't forget to look at the other critical numbers for your tow vehicle, such as payload capacity and total combined vehicle weight, which is the total weight of your loaded trailer, and the total weight of your loaded tow vehicle, including the hitch weight, driver and passengers and any gear you have in the vehicle. Often a tow vehicle is rated to tow a lot, but in actual fact it can only be achieved if your vehicle is empty. I was considering a Honda Ridgeline for towing a 19, but when you do all the math, it is getting very close to the limits on the total combined vehicle weight, and if you do any towing in the mountains, it got even worse since you lose 2% of total combined vehicle weight capacity for every 1000 ft of elevation gain.
The payload and total combined vehicle weight should be in the owners manual.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

On the recent return from Osoyoos, I ran into low octane and ethanol gas in Iowa, Illinois, South Dakota, otherwise know as the corn states. I do not have the flex fuel motor and I need at least mid grade, 89 octane or better. It was hard to find in those 3 states and I found only certain stations had fuel that I could use.

The recommended fuel for my 2014 Ram 1500 Hemi V8 is 89 octane midgrade gasoline but if you read the owners manual the engine can also be safely operated on 87 octane regular gasoline
The vehicles engine management system will adjust for the lower grade of fuel. You can also blend premium 91 octane fuel with 87 octane fuel in a pinch.

[float5]

Originally Posted by LeonW

we thought aboiut a Lexus GX460, but it had two strikes against it: the back door opens with hinges on the side, like a barn door. So you would have problems opening it with the trailer attached. Secondly, it want premium gasoline, with is not only an additional expense, but I noticed a few stations that we stopped at didn't stock premium gasoline.

We often see stations with no premium. That is not a problem for our TV but is for our other vehicle.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Sean Murry

Don't forget to look at the other critical numbers for your tow vehicle, such as payload capacity and total combined vehicle weight, which is the total weight of your loaded trailer, and the total weight of your loaded tow vehicle, including the hitch weight, driver and passengers and any gear you have in the vehicle. Often a tow vehicle is rated to tow a lot, but in actual fact it can only be achieved if your vehicle is empty. I was considering a Honda Ridgeline for towing a 19, but when you do all the math, it is getting very close to the limits on the total combined vehicle weight, and if you do any towing in the mountains, it got even worse since you lose 2% of total combined vehicle weight capacity for every 1000 ft of elevation gain.
The payload and total combined vehicle weight should be in the owners manual.

Sean, please don't confuse folks with the facts

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Sean Murry

... and if you do any towing in the mountains, it got even worse since you lose 2% of total combined vehicle weight capacity for every 1000 ft of elevation gain.

This peaked my curiosity as no such warning is present in my Toyota manual and I could not imagine any way that altitude could actually reduce a vehicle's physical weight capacities. A Google search led me to a Ford statement about its Edge. It states:

High altitude operation
Gasoline engines lose power by 3-4% per 1,000 ft. elevation. To maintain performance, reduce GVWs and GCWs by 2% per 1,000 ft. elevation.

(My emphasis on the performance part.)

[escape artist]

Hi: thoer... I lose performance at higher elevations. That's why I try to stay off ladders. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[thoer]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: thoer... I lose performance at higher elevations. That's why I try to stay off ladders. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

Me too Alf. Mary commented on how much I was complaining and whining as I was waxing the top of the new 21....

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by thoer

Me too Alf. Mary commented on how much I was complaining and whining as I was waxing the top of the new 21....

Hi: thoer... You musta bin using the "Corporate ladder". LoL
Now back to "Torque tows". Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The recommended fuel for my 2014 Ram 1500 Hemi V8 is 89 octane midgrade gasoline but if you read the owners manual the engine can also be safely operated on 87 octane regular gasoline
The vehicles engine management system will adjust for the lower grade of fuel. You can also blend premium 91 octane fuel with 87 octane fuel in a pinch.

True.

I once accidentally put half a tank of 87 into our Acura MDX (that needs 91, and it was already half full of 91 to start with) and then called my trusted mechanics, in a panic.

He was very reassuring, and he basically said that the actual octane content is "not an exact science" and the vehicles adjust for the varying octane, and not to worry, especially as it was 1/2 a tank of 87 into a 1/2 tank of 91).

I was very relieved.

John

[Sean Murry]

Originally Posted by thoer

This peaked my curiosity as no such warning is present in my Toyota manual and I could not imagine any way that altitude could actually reduce a vehicle's physical weight capacities. A Google search led me to a Ford statement about its Edge. It states:

High altitude operation
Gasoline engines lose power by 3-4% per 1,000 ft. elevation. To maintain performance, reduce GVWs and GCWs by 2% per 1,000 ft. elevation.

(My emphasis on the performance part.)

The only place I found that referenced the reduction in total combined vehicle weight capacity was in the Honda manual. I did not see a similair statement in the Nissan or GM Manuals. I agree with you that it doesn't really make sense your weight capacity should be reduced by elevation. Reducing performance I can see, but in the Honda manual they do not make the distinction.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Sean Murry

The only place I found that referenced the reduction in total combined vehicle weight capacity was in the Honda manual. I did not see a similair statement in the Nissan or GM Manuals. I agree with you that it doesn't really make sense your weight capacity should be reduced by elevation. Reducing performance I can see, but in the Honda manual they do not make the distinction.

Auto manuals sometimes say some very interesting things. My Highlander's (which has a max 5000# towing rating) states that if I tow more than 5000# that I need to use a WDH.

[Effie]

With all that was written here about BMW let me give you my personal experience. I own a 2011 X3 3.5i, it’s got a 3.0 liter turbocharged engine with 300 hp & 300 feet torque. I had no problems with the car during the six plus years of ownership, mechanical or other, and I love to drive it, what can I say I love driving. I did not purchase it for towing but I did use it to tow a medium size U-Haul trailer from Wisconsin to California and I now use it to tow an Escape 15B which it does very easy, much easier than I expected.(keep in mind that this is probably about half the weight of your 21 Escape). As a daily driver with some towing duties it serves me well.
Couple of things to keep in mind, if you don’t intend to keep it longer than five years the warranty will cover any issues. The second is the tongue weight, BMW does not want you to install a weight distributing hitch, with my light trailer it’s not an issue but putting 440 pound or more on the tongue could be a problem you should look into.
Yes, a truck will be a better towing vehicle but like your wife I’d rather be driving something else if most of my driving is done not towing.

[azjack]

Have the correct choice of trailer for the vehicle.

[Hjmanasa]

I'm on my second BMW X5 diesel. The 2016 gets 31 mpg highway all day long. I towed a vintage Mustang and trailer about 700 miles and got 26 mpg. The torque of the diesels is amazing and, diesel fuel is usually cheaper than premium gas. Both were virtually trouble free BMWs, but, due to their reputation for expensive repairs, I either trade them after the four year warranty expires, or buy the BMW extended warranty.
FYI, I don't believe that BMW allows a weight distributing hitch. So, I ordered mine with the auto leveling suspension. Hope this helps.

[BobG]

I was told by dealer that Q7 does recommend premium gas but it runs just fine on lower octane fuel. The higher octane gives better performance and economy but the engine tunes to the fuel being used without issue.

[Hjmanasa]

I'd take the dealer's comment about regular gas with a grain of salt. See if he'll let you see the owners manual. I think it strongly discourages regular gas.

[StarvingHyena]

Originally Posted by float5

My idea of more torque is that it is for pulling away, for instance, quicker from a light. That is the last thing I want to do with a trailer. Pulling away quickly from lights is one of the biggest ways that cars use more gas even when not towing.

As far as driving anywhere, I do not expect to tow the trailer at the speed that I would drive the vehicle if I were not towing. There are even laws in many states that restrict the towing speed to ten miles per hour less than vehicles alone, perhaps often for particular roads, not necessarily in general. As long as you have two lanes in your direction, people can pass you which is what most of the traffic should be doing many times, as I expect vehicles to be going faster than someone towing.

Cathy, I think I read this here on the forum somewhere: Horse power gets you up to speed, torque is what pulls you over mountain passes.

Tom

[float5]

Originally Posted by StarvingHyena

Cathy, I think I read this here on the forum somewhere: Horse power gets you up to speed, torque is what pulls you over mountain passes.

Tom

My idea remains of torque, confirmed by you, if you use it to go faster, you are using more gas! Especially up mountains. If going up a mountain and I increase speed, it's more gas! We don't usually drive in mountainous areas so not a concern to us, but some others live in or near mountains and that is important for them. We have sufficient of both.

[Brian B-P]

Power is the rate of doing work, so the speed you can haul a load up a mountain and how quickly you can accelerate are both dependent entirely on horsepower. That power can be the result of lots of engine torque at low engine speed, or less engine torque at higher engine speed, but the result is the same torque at the wheels and the same performance.

Most people are more comfortable with lower engine speeds - especially for extended durations - so they like higher engine torque; efficiency can also be better with the lower internal friction of lower engine speeds, for the same size of engine.

A useful characteristic is the availability of power over a wide range of engine speeds, so you don't have to shift gears too much to keep power available. Modern turbocharged engines are particularly good for this; all diesel engines (in modern vehicles) are turbocharged, but so are the popular Ford EcoBoost and other gasoline engines, including the TFSI engines such as the 3.0 V6 mentioned for the Audi Q7. Diesels tend to higher torque because they work poorly at high speed, so they are biased toward slower operation.