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Old 05-12-2019, 03:54 PM   #1
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tow vehicle for 21' trailer

Currently have a 17b and am thinking of getting a 21. Pull with a 2016 Highlander Limited awd with tow package 5000/500.
Will this be okay for the 21 trailer?
Anybody pulling the 21 with a highlander? I know there are lots using it with a 19'.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:37 PM   #2
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There are several E21/Highlander combo's here, Iowa Dave comes to mind.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:40 PM   #3
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Thanks Jim,
Do you know if he has new model?
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:48 PM   #4
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You go to the top menu, click on Community and then the letter "I" to find him here
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:58 PM   #5
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Any Highlanders towing 21 ft?

Are there any Toyota Highlanders towing a 21' ? Or any tow vehicles with 5000/500 tow rating pulling a 21'?
Would like to get a 21' trailer and have a 2016 Toyota Highlander... will it work okay?
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:59 PM   #6
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Thanks, I found him. He has the older model.
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Old 05-12-2019, 05:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
There are several E21/Highlander combo's here, Iowa Dave comes to mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrthwds View Post
Do you know if he has new model?
"The new model" presumably means either the 2013-2019 or third generation of the Highlander, or the revised version which started in model year 2016. There is a new-for-model-year-2020 version which has been announced but will not be available until the end of this year.

You can check Iowa Dave's profile for information and links to his threads and posts... but it says that he has a 2018 Highlander, which would be functionally identical to a 2016 Highlander.

For anyone looking to buy new, it looks like the 2020 Highlander uses the same engine (2GR-FKS) and 8-speed automatic transmission as the 2016 through 2018 Highlander; however, the 2019 has a slightly (2.4" or 61 mm) longer wheelbase, (all added in the cargo area), a new platform (so structure is different and suspension is revised and could be different in design), and revised AWD control... and of course it has more electronic stuff.
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:38 PM   #8
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Hi Brian,
Sorry, I meant the new model trailer. I think the older model was lighter. I bought the 17b and have the newer model escape and it did weigh more than the previous 17b.
I like my Highlander but am concerned about the trailer weight. It's rated for 5000/500 as is the new highlander. Mine has 6 speed not 8 like the newer ones. It is very responsive.
Is the longer wheel base better in the 2019? It still is 5000/500.
It seems lots of folks have heavy loads on the hitch weight for the 21.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:37 PM   #9
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We do have the 2018 Highlander. It’s been very good to date. I will be in for regular service tomorrow at 27,500 miles at one year and a few days. Will service again by about July 15 after Osoyoos, Fort Wayne, Fort Collins and perhaps Wainfleet, not sure yet. I’m doing what I want while I still can. You never know.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:02 PM   #10
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I had mentioned the higher weight of the new 21s in another thread and was corrected by another member: Escape 17B and Durango/Jeep GC -- V6 or V8. The new one is about 160 lbs heavier than the old one, before options.

On the "Actual Weights" spreadsheet over at FGRV forums (Trailer Weights in the Real World - Page 24 - Fiberglass RV), there is only one 2nd gen 21' listed, and at 4700 lbs (loaded) it is about 260 lbs heavier than the heaviest 1st gen model listed. No idea if that is including fluids or what options are installed. Tongue weight is listed right at 450. So it seems that with judicious loading you could be within your limits. And if you order new, you could consider customizing to limit added weight from options.

We have a 2015 Highlander, and I sat down and did some math one day based on the capacities listed in the owners manual. I was surprised to find out how little of the GCWR was leftover if towing at rated capacity. I do not have the exact numbers handy, but I figured that if towing 5,000 lbs, you were really only left with about 400 lbs of stuff you could put in the car. A full tank of gas takes up about 130lbs of that, which only leaves 270 lbs for you and any passengers and gear.

As with any other TV thread, you will get some owners who tell you they routinely push their limit, while others won't tow over 50% of what their vehicle can handle. Most people who chime in (like me) won't have direct experience with your setup. You might try the Escape Facebook group in addition to asking here.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:52 PM   #11
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5000 pound tow rating

Quote:
Originally Posted by nrthwds View Post
Currently have a 17b and am thinking of getting a 21. Pull with a 2016 Highlander Limited awd with tow package 5000/500.
Will this be okay for the 21 trailer?
Anybody pulling the 21 with a highlander? I know there are lots using it with a 19'.
NRTHWDS,

We towed our older model 21 with our older model 4Runner for over 20,000 miles.
People ask this type of question frequently, so I’ve come up with a list of questions you can use to gauge how you might fare towing near the limit:

1. Have you already been towing for a few years, at least?
2. Have you towed a variety of trailers and used a variety of tow vehicles?
3. Have you successfully completed an emergency maneuver while towing?
4. Do you have knowledge of trailer brake system settings and adjustment?
5. Do you know the age, tread depth, and speed rating of your trailer tires?
6. Do you use a torque wrench to check lug nuts on the trailer?
7. Do you regularly check air pressure on your tow vehicle and trailer tires?
8. Do you have a way to monitor transmission temps on your tow vehicle?
9. Can you calculate GCWR?
10. Can you calculate or measure your trailer tongue weight?
11. Do you know your tow vehicle’s torque rating?
12. Do you plan to stay away from mountains?
13. Do you plan to keep your speed under 65 mph?

If you answer “no” to very many of these, you probably would benefit from a higher rated tow vehicle to keep a margin of safety.

As others have said, get the trailer you really want—they last quite a long time. Tow vehicles can be changed out. Try it with what you have, but keep an open mind.

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Old 05-13-2019, 07:36 AM   #12
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Very good, informative answer there Bill.....
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:18 AM   #13
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Excellent Bill.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:35 AM   #14
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:37 AM   #15
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There was a tongue weight survey done at the last Quartzite using a Sherline. The highest 21' tongue weight was 700# but all the weights measured was over 500#. The range of weights mostly ran 550# to 650#.

That doesn't bode well for a TV with a 500# tongue weight capacity. Empty tongue weight ratings don't mean much as trailers are rarely empty in use.
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:55 PM   #16
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There was a tongue weight survey done at the last Quartzite using a Sherline. The highest 21' tongue weight was 700# but all the weights measured was over 500#. The range of weights mostly ran 550# to 650#.

That doesn't bode well for a TV with a 500# tongue weight capacity. Empty tongue weight ratings don't mean much as trailers are rarely empty in use.
Those number are significantly different than those reported by or in Frederick L. Simson's "Trailer Weights in the Real World". He has stats on [11] 21' Escapes. The tongue weights ranged from a low of 380# to a high of 500#. The average tongue weight was 453#.

It was a different story with the 5th wheel Escapes. (Maybe that is what you are referencing?) Here [7] 5.0TA's were weighed at the tongue. The range went from 520# all the way to 1036#. Throw out the skewe 1036# from the sample and the average tongue weight for a 5.0TA becomes a more sedate 656#.
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:12 PM   #17
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Those number are significantly different than those reported by or in Frederick L. Simson's "Trailer Weights in the Real World".

I thought he retired from trailer weighing a couple or three years ago. There are new models of the Escape now, slightly heavier.
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:15 PM   #18
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Those number are significantly different than those reported by or in Frederick L. Simson's "Trailer Weights in the Real World". He has stats on [11] 21' Escapes. The tongue weights ranged from a low of 380# to a high of 500#. The average tongue weight was 453#.

It was a different story with the 5th wheel Escapes. (Maybe that is what you are referencing?) Here [7] 5.0TA's were weighed at the tongue. The range went from 520# all the way to 1036#. Throw out the skewe 1036# from the sample and the average tongue weight for a 5.0TA becomes a more sedate 656#.
According to F Simson’s table only one of the 21 ft Escapes listed was a 2nd generation trailer
That may skew the numbers toward the low end . From my measurements my 2018- 21 ft has a tongue weight around 500 lbs +/- which includes a few gallons of water in the black and gray tanks . We do have the front storage box
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Telescopist View Post
Those number are significantly different than those reported by or in Frederick L. Simson's "Trailer Weights in the Real World". He has stats on [11] 21' Escapes. The tongue weights ranged from a low of 380# to a high of 500#. The average tongue weight was 453#.

It was a different story with the 5th wheel Escapes. (Maybe that is what you are referencing?) Here [7] 5.0TA's were weighed at the tongue. The range went from 520# all the way to 1036#. Throw out the skewe 1036# from the sample and the average tongue weight for a 5.0TA becomes a more sedate 656#.
On the spreadsheet version of Fred's weight data I keep at LakeshoreImages, there is only one 21 identified as a second generation (It was mine when new). Packed for a short trip, the trailer was at 4700 / 450 pound readings.

At the start of the most recent trip in August 2018, the trailer was 4800 lbs, tongue 500. This was with empty gray & black, 2/3 Fresh & both propane tanks full. I have two solar panels on the roof.

The last time I weighed it was March 22, 2019 towards the end of a trip with 2/3 full tanks )all three), two full propane tanks, and way too much junk collected along the way. Trailer weighed in at 5020, and tongue at 580.

While I've never been accused of packing light, it does show the range that one might run into.
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:32 PM   #20
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I thought he retired from trailer weighing a couple or three years ago. There are new models of the Escape now, slightly heavier.
Frederick gave me permission to maintain a spreadsheet version of his data (linked in a previous post), with the new data provided by users. While the provided data may not be as accurate as Frederick's since I have no way of knowing how the weighing was done, it has been updated as often as anyone sends me the information. I'd love to get more from 2nd generation Escapes, and will identify them if the provider provides the information.

Unfortunately, the original information did not include the manufacture year, so it is difficult to sort between generations...
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