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Old 03-22-2014, 08:44 PM   #41
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Yes, I have a plan I want to work. The plan is not exact and I'm not so committed to it working out any particular way so much I will endanger myself and others. If I wear out a car, lesson learned, life goes on. If I wreck it, may be my last lesson. That's what I'm getting at.

Anyway, it's sounding like a 17 is more likely to be practical for me. So perhaps I should shut up on this 19 TV topic. But I would love suggestions for a safe 19 TV that are on the smaller side of realistic and would get decent mileage. Not a tall truck being ideal.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:46 PM   #42
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I just scooped this from Frederick's Trailer Weights in the Real World thread on FiberglassRV.

I don't see ANY of these trailers weights that your Suburu could handle... based on the tongue weight, etc.

SIZE__________________AXLE___TONGUE__TOTAL
13__Escape_____________1780___240____2020
17__Escape___Plan B_____2340___320___2660
17__Escape___Plan B_____2500___340___2840
17__Escape___Plan B_____2560___320___2880
17__Escape___Plan B _____2560___380___2940
17__Escape___Plan B_____2500___500*__3000
19__Escape___Dual Axle__2670___460___3130
19__Escape___Dual Axle__2920___220___3140
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:54 PM   #43
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Hey Donna! Yeah, that chart was the link I posted earlier, but has not been moderator approved yet.

Thanks for trimming it to the relevant bits.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:58 PM   #44
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Frederick is a friend of mine and he gives his weight table freely. It's just important to say who owns the work and where it came from. Since Frederick is a weigh master, you can believe the weights as being accurate.

Be safe, always.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:02 PM   #45
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Scamps can have lower tongue weight as the axle is close to mid point. With that design it is quite possible to load the trailer with a tongue weight below the minimum safe 9% of trailer weight. Reace designs Escape with the axles further back, making it much harder to get to an unsafe minimum tongue weight. A tongue weight that is too low sets up very potentially dangerous towing situations.

That 19 with a 220# tongue weight seems strange - I would think it would be very hard to get the tongue that light.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:06 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanear View Post
Hey Donna! Yeah, that chart was the link I posted earlier, but has not been moderator approved yet.

Thanks for trimming it to the relevant bits.
Not sure why the link didn't show up, but there has been no alert for us to deal with.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:15 PM   #47
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And those are ready to hit the road, real world number right? Not dry, empty trailers?

Because other than hitch weight I don't see any reason why some of those could not be safely towed by an Outback. And it seem the prefered set up for Outback towing is with a better hitch than the factory option that only supports 200lbs.

Here's a Reese class 3 rated for 400/4000lbs and the 6 cylinder '05-'09 Outback is rated to 3000lbs towing with trailer brakes.

Part number #44581
Weight Carrying: 400/4,000 lbs. (TW/GTW)
Weight Distributing: 0 lbs. (TW/GTW)
Package Type: Bulk
Shipping Weight: 25 lbs.
Shipping Size: 34.25" L x 19.38" W x 10" H
UPC: 016118066975
I'd link to the Reese page, but don't want to wait for mods to approve that.

And I think there are other series 3s that support weight distribution as well.

Sounds to me like a well packed and weighed 17 is certainly doable? Or did I miss something?
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:17 PM   #48
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Not sure why the link didn't show up, but there has been no alert for us to deal with.
Strange, no worries I suppose. I'll try another link and see if it shows up.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:17 PM   #49
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The Reese hitch I referenced.

Trailer Hitches - Reese
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:18 PM   #50
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Hey, that link showed up fine!
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:23 PM   #51
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A tongue weight that is too low sets up very potentially dangerous towing situations.
Yep, the only time I felt an unsafe movement was when I was just getting started with my current rig, was experimenting with adjusting loads. I put too much weight all in the very back of the trailer to lighten the tongue and I did feel a bit of sway in the back I DID NOT LIKE. I read a bit on the subject after that and have kept a more even load since and have never felt that sway again.
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:20 PM   #52
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We are probably ordering a 19 or 21 ft. trailer this fall, but needing a new trip vehicle I ordered a new truck last fall. I do not like to push anything close to its limits so I set up the new truck for towing. It has 11,200 pounds towing capacity, the max tow package with a 3.73 rear end, camper mirrors and other heavy duty equipment. Trailers and cargo seem to gain extra weight on trips and I prefer to be well within my limits. The hitch has a limit of 800 pounds. I surely wouldn't need a stabilizing hitch, would I?
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Old 03-23-2014, 04:57 AM   #53
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Loren & Cathy, Common consensus over on the big rv forum about towing where your weight is well under the TV's abilities, is you don't need a weight distribution hitch but may still need something for sway control. No idea if these little trailers have need of such though. From what I've seen most folks go with a WDH w/sway control irregardless of if they really need it.
My stick trailer is about the same weight and size as the 21, I use a 4 point Equalizer weight distribution hitch and pull with what sounds like the same vehicle you have. I probably don't really need it, but I take long trips and prefer to push anything close to it's limits.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:12 AM   #54
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I use the Andersen anti sway/weight distribution for long trips, not for weight but for windy conditions.
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:34 PM   #55
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I owned a 2010 Subaru Outback, and take delivery of my 17B next month, I sold it last fall and bought a new 2013 Honda Pilot. I carefully researched the use of my "then" Subaru for towing the 17B and the main issue is the maximum towing capacity of 2600 lb and maximum tongue weight of 200 lb. Realistically the 17B will exceed the 2600 when the options are added let alone when loaded for camping. Also the 17B tongue weight already exceeds the maximum for the Subaru, using an equalizer taxes the "all wheel drive" control system. All that said! If you had an accident when towing you may not be covered since the 17B and Subaru would exceed the maximum combined GVW for the Subaru. A few thoughts.
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:49 PM   #56
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Hopefully ordering a 19' soon and fully confident our 2014 4Runner will pull it, it's a beast. We like the ability of the vehicle (being a 4x4 enthusiast) and I am glad I convinced the wife to finally move up from the minivan. I was skeptical she wouldn't like the fact that it rides like a truck but she can't hide that grin every time she fires it up.
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:20 PM   #57
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I owned a 2010 Subaru Outback, and take delivery of my 17B next month, I sold it last fall and bought a new 2013 Honda Pilot. I carefully researched the use of my "then" Subaru for towing the 17B and the main issue is the maximum towing capacity of 2600 lb and maximum tongue weight of 200 lb. Realistically the 17B will exceed the 2600 when the options are added let alone when loaded for camping. Also the 17B tongue weight already exceeds the maximum for the Subaru, using an equalizer taxes the "all wheel drive" control system. All that said! If you had an accident when towing you may not be covered since the 17B and Subaru would exceed the maximum combined GVW for the Subaru. A few thoughts.
Except the tow rating for the 6 cylinder Outbacks, at least the 05-09 models is 3000lbs. (Same model in Europe is rated more like 3600lbs) The 200lb hitch rating is for the factory option hitch. There are better hitches (that are cheaper too) with higher ratings for that model. Like the Reese I pointed to in an earlier post.

I asked AAA about my insurance and tow ratings and they said they had no exact policy and if I wasn't breaking the law I'd be covered as far as they could tell as long as I had insurance for both the trailer and TV with them. I don't think the tow ratings are a legal limit in the US, Canada may be different and perhaps state/provincial laws vary? More information on this is welcome.
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:55 PM   #58
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Thanks for the reply. I see now I should keep an open mind for getting a vehicle with 3 rows of seats. When it comes to it, all vehicles are a compromise. ($$$, comfort, reliability, etc.) What I will not compromise is safety. After unpleasant experiences towing with too small a towing capacity (even though below the posted capacity) I want a lot of towing capacity - hence the appeal of the Jeep Grand Cherokee. But I certainly love the reliability of my 2005 Highlander. Replacing it with the new model of Highlander with increased towing capacity is an option I should seriously consider.
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Old 03-23-2014, 04:18 PM   #59
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Dave, if you don't mind having a body-on-frame SUV as a tug, I believe third row seating is optional on the SR5 and Limited models of the 4Runner, and five seats in two rows is the only option on the Trail Edition.

That new Highlander sure looks nice, though, if you prefer a crossover and can tolerate having a row of seats you might never use.
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Old 03-23-2014, 06:00 PM   #60
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Except the tow rating for the 6 cylinder Outbacks, at least the 05-09 models is 3000lbs. (Same model in Europe is rated more like 3600lbs) The 200lb hitch rating is for the factory option hitch. There are better hitches (that are cheaper too) with higher ratings for that model. Like the Reese I pointed to in an earlier post.

I asked AAA about my insurance and tow ratings and they said they had no exact policy and if I wasn't breaking the law I'd be covered as far as they could tell as long as I had insurance for both the trailer and TV with them. I don't think the tow ratings are a legal limit in the US, Canada may be different and perhaps state/provincial laws vary? More information on this is welcome.
I'd suggest you contact a solicitor or what a lawyer is called in your area. The forum is not the best source for advice but merely opinions. The fact you are aware of the issues presents preconceived knowledge. This what trials are about.
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