Tow Vehicle for Escape 19 and Escape 17

[Timbo1]

Hi, Just last week I ended 11 months of full timing in my 19. I tow it with a 2013 4.0 liter V6, 6 spd manual transmission with the TRD package. I used a weight distribution hitch and it towed wonderfully. My brake controller that is easy to self install, is a Prodigy P2. I had also installed the Roadmaster Active Suspension system. This whole set up worked perfectly for me for 11 months. I was planning on being full time longer but the pandemic closures made it too tedious for me. That was my experience. Hope it helps.

[Ron in BC]

Here's the thing. There's OK and if that's all you experience then, well, you think that it's OK.

I towed my 19 far and wide with a Ranger 4.0 L V-6, Alaska to Baja, BC to Newfoundland and most of the US high passes. It did "OK". But my stomach muscles did get a bit of a workout sometimes because I knew the engine was working hard.

But if you want to know what's better than "OK" trying towing with an F150 Ecoboost. Mine is only the 2.7 but with the 10 speed it's the best and most relaxing tow vehicle that I've had in 50 or so years of towing.

I tow without a WDH. About 25 feet to get the rig straightened out from where it's parked at home. Then the WDH goes on. This is a topic that's been discussed relentlessly. There may be some cases where the tug is so massive and the tow relatively small where you'd be hard pressed to see the need. But try with and without with typical rigs and you'll feel the difference.

Ron

[yangstyle]

One thing to keep in mind if your trailer is close to your TV specs for payload and/or towing limit is what Ford calls Frontal Area Considerations from their Trailer Towing Selector;

"Frontal Area Limitations/Considerations
F-150
55 sq. ft. Any Powertrain with Trailer Towing Package or Payload Package
and Trailer Towing Ratings Between 5,001 and 7,700 lbs.
60 sq. ft. Any Powertrain with Trailer Towing Package or Payload Package
and Trailer Towing Ratings 7,701 lbs. and Greater
75 sq. ft. All 5th-Wheel and Gooseneck Applications with Any Powertrain
with Trailer Towing Package or Payload Package

Frontal Area is the total area in square feet that a moving vehicle and trailer exposes to air resistance.
The chart above shows the maximum trailer frontal area that must be considered for a vehicle/trailer
combination. Exceeding these limitations may significantly reduce the performance of your towing vehicle."

Your performance while towing 3500-4000 lbs on a flat deck that is 3 feet high will be different that the same weight that is 9 feet high.

[Rossue]

Old news here; interesting to see many back then now owning Full Size.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...area-4952.html

[Defenestrator]

Originally Posted by Melusine

New at this all, so I'm wondering three things (for the moment):
1. is a 2015 Toyota Tacoma (TRD Off Road) with a 4.0 V-6 up to pulling a 19;
2. assuming I need a brake controller, what is the recommended brand/model. and
3. do I need/should I get a weight distribution hitch (he asked, not actually knowing what that is)?
Many thanks.
Jonathan

I'd say the Tacoma is up to the job, but might be a bit borderline on power. I towed one with a Highlander (275HP rather than 236HP in the Tacoma, but not as broad of a torque curve) and it was adequate under most circumstances, but struggled (45MPH in the right lane, but no overheating or anything) with the combination of very high altitude (>8K feet) and steep climb (~8 miles of 6% grade). Lower altitude or gentler climbs it was fine (climbing the Grapevine at the speed limit was no problem). Should be fine for stability and braking, but if you go through the Rockies you'll need some patience.

2. Prodigy P2 or P3 is generally the way to go (P2 used to be "good enough" for cheaper, but I think the price difference is smaller sometimes)

3. I'd suggest a WDH and sway bar. Especially since the TRD Pro suspension is likely a bit on the soft side.

[Rossue]

Elliott- what do you tow with now?

[Defenestrator]

I up-sized to a Bigfoot 25RQ and tow it with a Silverado 1500 with the Max Trailering and 6.2L. I'd say it's similarly matched to the Bigfoot - enough, but some patience required climbing eastbound towards the Eisenhower Tunnel.

I did tow the Escape 19 with it briefly and would call it hilarious overkill for that task. It did get slightly better mileage than the Highlander towing, but the higher price of premium and atrocious mileage around town more than made up for that. I was also kind of concerned about the lack of feedback - if a brake on the Escape locked or something similar went wrong, I think in the Highlander it would be stable but noticeable. The Silverado would just drag it along and I wouldn't even notice.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Melusine

New at this all, so I'm wondering three things (for the moment):
1. is a 2015 Toyota Tacoma (TRD Off Road) with a 4.0 V-6 up to pulling a 19;
2. assuming I need a brake controller, what is the recommended brand/model. and
3. do I need/should I get a weight distribution hitch (he asked, not actually knowing what that is)?
Many thanks.
Jonathan

Welcome to our community. If you can not afford a new $60,000 full size truck your Tacoma will pull an Escape 19. Don't let your Tacoma be the reason you don't own an Escape 19. There are many Escape owners that use Tacomas to pull their 17,19,21 and even 5.0. I spoke to several at last years rally that had no issues and appreciated the dependability. The brake controllers are important and widely available, most shops will install what they sell. The WD hitch levels the entire rig, helps keep the front wheels planted and provides stability when you need to make evasive maneuvers.

Tacomas do not have as much power as full size so they will be slower in the mountains.

[Melusine]

Timbo-
Many thanks for the quick and thorough note and excellent specific details. My 2015 Tacoma, other than having an automatic tranny, sounds like yours and it's good to hear about the WDH being effective; along with the ease of installation of a brake controller.
Who knows, if I can find the right 19 I may yet get on the road.
In the meantime, thanks again and good luck to you.
Jonathan

[Melusine]

What a wealth of information and experience! I especially appreciate all the observations on towing considerations...particularly as related to Tacomas and 19s. I'm heartened, to, by the encouraging tone of those with many miles on their rigs...thanks to all!

[Mario]

2016 f150, 2wd, 3.5 non turbo, trailer tow package, 3.73 lock differential. Thinking of by 17b. It should tow just fine. Max tow is listed and 7,200lbs.
6160GVWR, integrated brake controller.

Looking at buy new 17b with bed option.

Any comment?

[John in Santa Cruz]

I towed our E21 home from Texas in the middle of winter with our Tacoma TRD Off Road. The truck had airbags, which I set to 45-50 PSI, and it felt just fine towing, rock stable. It was a 6 speed manual stick shift, true 4x4.

downsides was truck payload and tank range. we have a f250 diesel longbed now, but its not as much fun on dirt roads.

[Doug2000]

Originally Posted by Melusine

New at this all, so I'm wondering three things (for the moment):
1. is a 2015 Toyota Tacoma (TRD Off Road) with a 4.0 V-6 up to pulling a 19;
2. assuming I need a brake controller, what is the recommended brand/model. and
3. do I need/should I get a weight distribution hitch (he asked, not actually knowing what that is)?
Many thanks.
Jonathan

We had a 2008 Tacoma and a 2017 4Runner both with the bullet proof 4.0 V6. Both towed the 17B around Ontario no problem. We recently bought a new 19 and have upgraded to a 2019 Tundra 4.6L. Why upgrade for a E19? It depends on your destinations. We did a trip through Colorado and Utah, we had to take it easy on the long mountain climbs. I was pushing harder than I liked. Will your 2015 Tacoma tow a E19, absolutely, if you head to higher elevations, expect to take it easy.

For every 1000’ elevation you lose 3% horsepower. We pulled the 17B over Loveland Pass in Colorado. At the top, the air is thinner, we lost 33% horsepower. To do the upper climb, I put it in 2nd gear and held it at 3500 rpms for the switchbacks. We made it.

We mainly upgraded to a Tundra as a truck works better for our needs,

[Doug2000]

Originally Posted by Melusine

Timbo-
Many thanks for the quick and thorough note and excellent specific details. My 2015 Tacoma, other than having an automatic tranny, sounds like yours and it's good to hear about the WDH being effective; along with the ease of installation of a brake controller.
Who knows, if I can find the right 19 I may yet get on the road.
In the meantime, thanks again and good luck to you.
Jonathan

I highly advise using a device to monitor your transmission temps. Read up on and understand The transmission fluid operating range, what’s normal, and what’s hot. Only tow in 4th gear, not OD. I use a ScanGauge set to show transmission temp.

My experience

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...nce-13422.html

[cpaharley2008]

My Ram 1500 gives you a wealth of information while towing/drving, even tells you when the oil needs changing....this is towing the E19.

[John in Santa Cruz]

if your transmission has a torque converter lockup, and you know how to tell when its locked, you can tow in OD on level ground, just manually drop out of OD *before* any hills, or acceleration.

my tacoma 4.0 had a 6 speed stick so I didn't have to worry about that.

re: brake controller, if the tacoma has the factory tow package, you can plug in most any Tekonsha or Curt or whatever, with an off the shelf Toyota specific harness adapter from them. you want the controller firmly mounted where you can easily reach it to manually engage the trailer brakes in an emergency. People really like the prodigy p2, p3 series. I've used the old school Voyager, its OK but not quite as adaptive.

[salmo7000]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

I highly advise using a device to monitor your transmission temps. Read up on and understand The transmission fluid operating range, what’s normal, and what’s hot. Only tow in 4th gear, not OD. I use a ScanGauge set to show transmission temp.

My experience

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...nce-13422.html

Great advice. I'd say transmission temp is the weak link for towing with my Colorado diesel. It's rated to tow 7,500 lbs and does a great job with my 19. But climbing the long, steep grades of Idaho and Montana, I've had the transmission temp get as high as 236. Even after repeated inquiries to the dealer, I've not gotten a straight answer as to whether this is within normal operating range or not. Posts on the Colorado diesel forum indicate this temperature while towing is not unusual. Lots of folks there are saying unless it gets past 260, or the tranny isn't acting wonky, it's all good. But I don't know, that seems pretty high. Here's where I've landed with the whole situation... I monitor the temp closely while pulling up steep grades and am prepared to pull over if it ever gets hotter than 240. I always approach any grade with the truck in tow/haul mode, which locks out the highest gear. Then I'm planning to change the transmission fluid before the recommended mileage. I think it's important to know what it is either way!

[cpaharley2008]

You may want to look into synthetic fluid if available. My trans is always lower than my oil and coolant. Also note at 65 mph, my "eco" mode has activated which means I'm only towing with 4 cyl or 1/2 of the V-8 at 1500 rpm?

[Rossue]

2017 Colorado does come with Full Synthetic Dexron VI.
My 2014 Yukon was pushing 242 trans temp climbing up to Onion Valley from 395; 8% grade for 12 miles. I stopped 3 times and let it cool with engine running. I found out later that while at the upper range of OK it's still OK. Even before that I had resolved to change the trans fluid every 30K. We tow 80% of the time and consider it to be cheap insurance. Regular interval is 90K and for extreme driving 45K.

[Doug2000]

Originally Posted by salmo7000

Great advice. I'd say transmission temp is the weak link for towing with my Colorado diesel. It's rated to tow 7,500 lbs and does a great job with my 19. But climbing the long, steep grades of Idaho and Montana, I've had the transmission temp get as high as 236. Even after repeated inquiries to the dealer, I've not gotten a straight answer as to whether this is within normal operating range or not. Posts on the Colorado diesel forum indicate this temperature while towing is not unusual. Lots of folks there are saying unless it gets past 260, or the tranny isn't acting wonky, it's all good. But I don't know, that seems pretty high. Here's where I've landed with the whole situation... I monitor the temp closely while pulling up steep grades and am prepared to pull over if it ever gets hotter than 240. I always approach any grade with the truck in tow/haul mode, which locks out the highest gear. Then I'm planning to change the transmission fluid before the recommended mileage. I think it's important to know what it is either way!

This is my understanding from reading on the Tacoma Forum. For transmission temps, be concerned at 220, 230 look to pull over, 240 shut it down, 250 the oil starts to turn to varnish, O Rings, gaskets and seals start to age, at 275 you start to lose clearance in valve bodies as everything heats up and expands. If you get to 275 and stuff is acting wonky, damage may be done.

After crossing the US, we were getting the oil changed at Toyota of Huntington Beach, I talked to a senior mechanic and he confirmed 220 is ok, pull over at 230, 240. If the Chevy dealer can’t give you specifics, find another dealer.