Tow Vehicle size and power.

[BCnomad]

Head winds?

[float5]

Consumer Reports is at the library. We don't buy enough to pay for a sub anymore. They have auto reliability ratings that I believe come from thousands of owners. Their summaries of what to consider can be good.

[skiman]

I have subscribed to CR for years. You do need to take their ratings with a grain of salt. I remember getting ready to buy a highly rated expensive Hoover vacuum based on their recommendation. Looked at Amazon ratings and people hated it. Bought a Dyson that people liked and it has been great for 20 years. At the time CR didn't rate them well at all.

[Jim Bennett]

I found with CR that they often seemed to be very short on the 'Research' aspect, and found many of their reports lacking in true substance. Since the advent of the internet, there seems to be a lot of much better sources to research products, and I haven't referred to CR in years now.

One does have to take personal reviews with a grain of salt though, as it does seem that often it is mostly the ones unhappy with their choice for some reason, that feel they need to voice it as a review, whereas those happy with their purchase often do not report their findings. This is why when I find a product I am very pleased with, I will try to do some kind of review somewhere on it.

[thoer]

As a long term subscriber and contributor to Consumer Report, I need to do a bit a defending here. Everyone can come up with an example of a mistake or seemingly silly statement from CR, but I assert that there is no other organization in existence that offers the range of product reviews while taking no money from advertisers of those products. CR buys each product on the open market, they are not given products by manufacturers and their magazine and website have no ads, they are totally subscriber supported.

Jim states that there are "much better sources" and while I usually agree with JIm nearly 100% I cannot agree with that statement. Yes there are multiple places to research products, some very specific and marginally unbiased. An example lots of people use is Amazon reviews. What many people are unaware of is that some people are provided with free stuff in exchange for "unbiased" reviews. I was offered such a deal from a maker of cell phone and iPad accessories. I posted a couple of honest reviews that while mostly positive, were not glowing 5 star recommendations and suddenly I was no longer offered the products. Some companies actually have employees write glowing reviews of their various products under several screen names. Amazon does its best to weed that out, but cannot spend the time and effort to make sure it doesn't happen. I use Amazon reviews often when making purchases, but only really consider them valid when there have been hundreds of reviews, not a handful. I try to look for large scale problems, or positives and consider many reviews worthless.

Unless one is knowledgeable about everything in existence () then we all need help with decisions about product selection. Nearly every major appliance we have purchased has been a CR "Best Buy" and with only one exception (a Kenmore oven) they have been long lived, well made and lived up to the rating.

Car enthusiasts everywhere bash CR auto ratings, missing the point that they will get a review that much more closely matches their needs at "Car and Driver" or a related publication. After years of driving cheap clunkers that were all I could afford and doing all my own mechanic and bodywork, I bought my first new car ever in 1986. When we needed a second car, I bought a Corolla in 1990 based on CR reviews. My car enthusiast brother ridicules my Corollas, as he spends 2 - 3 times the amount on cars that give him the "driving experience" he craves. I've now owned 4 Corolla of which not a single one has had anything major go wrong, worst has been one water pump at about 120K. Except for our current 2014, each of those was sold to friends and I watched them live out their lives (before Wisconsin road salt claimed them) without a single major failure.

Bashing CR for its mistakes seems to be a sport for many "experts". Everyone makes their own decision on who to trust for advice. I prefer mine as unbiased and research based as possible. Is CR always right - of course not. Neither is my Dr, but I surely trust his opinion more than getting medical advice from Facebook comments.

[BCnomad]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

This is why when I find a product I am very pleased with, I will try to do some kind of review somewhere on it.

And my wallet for one is lighter because of it.

In a good way.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by BCnomad

And my wallet for one is lighter because of it.

In a good way.

That darn rubber arm, eh? You are so easily forced into parting with your money.

[BCnomad]

I have one of those solar grills coming, maybe I can return the favour sometime after I review it.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by BCnomad

I have one of those solar grills coming, maybe I can return the favour sometime after I review it.

Hope it comes with sunshine.

[BCnomad]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Hope it comes with sunshine.

I'll run my open framed generator with a sun lamp.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by skiman

I have subscribed to CR for years. You do need to take their ratings with a grain of salt. I remember getting ready to buy a highly rated expensive Hoover vacuum based on their recommendation. Looked at Amazon ratings and people hated it. Bought a Dyson that people liked and it has been great for 20 years. At the time CR didn't rate them well at all.

Also being a owner of Dyson when they started selling here . Couldn't understand why they pushed the heavy , short cord , not user friendly Hoover . And as you said , the Dyson that is well liked CR doesn't like . HmmPat

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by BCnomad

I'll run my open framed generator with a sun lamp.

That's good thinking.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thoer

Car enthusiasts everywhere bash CR auto ratings, missing the point that they will get a review that much more closely matches their needs at "Car and Driver" or a related publication. After years of driving cheap clunkers that were all I could afford and doing all my own mechanic and bodywork, I bought my first new car ever in 1986. When we needed a second car, I bought a Corolla in 1990 based on CR reviews. My car enthusiast brother ridicules my Corollas, as he spends 2 - 3 times the amount on cars that give him the "driving experience" he craves. I've now owned 4 Corolla of which not a single one has had anything major go wrong, worst has been one water pump at about 120K. Except for our current 2014, each of those was sold to friends and I watched them live out their lives (before Wisconsin road salt claimed them) without a single major failure.

That's just the kind of reliable ownership experience which one would expect based on reviews of the Corolla in magazines for auto enthusiasts, newspaper articles, and random anecdotes from friends who own them. There's no conflict here between sources, and little value in any one source... including Consumer Reports.

The guy spending much more for a different "driving experience" is not getting more reliability or more effective transportation, and I doubt that he would claim otherwise. Yes, you need to know what type of information you need to choose a suitable source.

[Brian B-P]

Ray, thanks for the CR survey details.

Originally Posted by Ray N

Consumer Reports requires a minimum of 100 samples for every make and model for every year reported on.

That's much better than one, or a few. For comparison, there were 63,232 of the new Chevrolet Colorado sold up to the end of September 2015. If they have 100 samples, it would be interesting to say what a statistician would say about the accuracy of projections based on that sample; unlike a typical opinion poll, the CR report gives no estimate of error.

Any unbiased source - or source with a known bias - can be useful... but the accuracy needs to be considered objectively.

[thoer]

Once again; Golly Gee Brian, I have to join in the chorus of thanks for taking time to spread your seemingly infinite knowledge of every topic ever discussed here on the forum onto us hicks. The next time I consider a new car and want to look back at how reliable that model has been in 17 specific areas over a period of 6-7 years, from a source that doesn't take ad money from the products it is reviewing, I am going to be sure to look at every single source you listed there that can provide that for me.

I've also learned that every political poll ever done is worthless as it polls a very tiny faction on actual voters.

Also, since Corollas are my favorite small sedan and Consumer Report now list 6 others small sedans better than it, I can clearly see that Consumer Report is therefore worthless.

[gharper]

I admit to being a CR reader and past supporter. I find it hard to find unbiased info on major purchases and I think it can be challenging to study and report the findings for the various aspects of the products they research. Regarding sample size, the greater the variability of the data being measured the greater the sample size needed to have confidence in it's prediction.

FYI, the USFDA approves drugs for use in the USA population after completing three phases of trials that often totals no more than a few thousand patients. Seems to me to be a pretty small sample size.

[KarenH]

Moving right along...

And back to the OP's Toyota and Tundra question.

[gbaglo]

I think we dealt with that in the first two pages.

[Kountrykamper]

LOL

This thread is like asking which tires are best.

I love my Tundra!

[santacruzer]

I'm a big Toyota fan. Love both the Tundra AND Tacoma, for different reasons, and the '74 FJ40 that I seem unable or unwilling to part with, despite the exhortations of my SO. A guy can't have too many Toyotas.