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Old 09-18-2014, 03:46 PM   #41
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You may not like it, have you had your 21' weighed? Mine came in at 3800# axle plus 500# tongue weight, total 4300#. It will probably exceed the capacity of the Honda.
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:42 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liveyoga View Post
+1 for that. We have a 2014 4Runner as well with a 19' on order. I am more than confident it will pull with factory hitch.
We use a WDH with our 4Runner and would not be without it. Of course, it can tow without it but no chance we would not use it. Much more added safety. It redistributes about 300 lbs up to the front of the TV and back to the Escape.
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
You may not like it, have you had your 21' weighed? Mine came in at 3800# axle plus 500# tongue weight, total 4300#. It will probably exceed the capacity of the Honda.
x2, as they say.
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:03 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floating Cloud View Post
We use a WDH with our 4Runner and would not be without it. Of course, it can tow without it but no chance we would not use it. Much more added safety. It redistributes about 300 lbs up to the front of the TV and back to the Escape.
As we prepare to pick up our 21' next month, let me pass along the 4Runner receiver/hitch knowledge I've learned about my 2003 4.0. The factory receiver for this vehicle is rated at 5000 lbs, but there is an optional factory receiver rated at 6400 lbs, that probably just came with the V8. The difference is the design of the receiver. The lighter one (my original one) is approximately 6" by 8" and fastens to a rear cross member with 6 hefty bolts. It does not connect to the frame rails and a WDH is not recommended to be used with it. I have bought and installed a Hidden Hitch full size receiver that bolts to both frame rails and the rear cross member, now making the same vehicle supposedly capable of the full 6400 lbs., as shown in the owners' manual. This will also allow me to safely add an Anderson, if needed.

If someone will remind me how to attach a photo, I'll try to post a pic of the new and old receivers.

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Old 09-19-2014, 09:00 AM   #45
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What's the tongue weight ratings for these receivers on the 4 runner? Don't believe changing the receiver will add anything to that capacity.
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Old 09-19-2014, 12:06 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by padlin View Post
What's the tongue weight ratings for these receivers on the 4 runner? Don't believe changing the receiver will add anything to that capacity.
Bob,
According to the 2003 owner's manual, the max tongue weight for the "weight carrying hitch" (the small receiver) is 500 lbs. The tongue weight for the "weight distributing hitch" (the larger receiver I just installed) is : V-6 2wd 670 lbs
V-6 4wd 640 lbs
V-8 2wd 730 lbs
V-8 4wd 700 lbs.
As you probably guessed, this represents 10% of the tow rating, so multiply by 10 to get the rating of each, at least in 2003.
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:35 PM   #47
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Hi, Bill,
That is interesting that Toyota said weight carrying and weight distributing. Ours that they would refer to as carrying is in fact distributing that nearly 300 lbs. I mentioned.

The big problem with all of that information is that it is in a 2003 owner's manual. The 4Runner was redesigned in 2010. So our 2011 is not the same as earlier ones. I believe the transmission is different and more. Of course, the V8 was dropped. Generally, another hitch does not matter because there are other limiting factors and it's the lowest number in the link that dictates what can be towed. I do not recall any difference being mentioned for this new generation where a different hitch can be used. Maybe I just have not seen that. But thank you for the information and I will try to look into that. By the way though, our 4Runner meets the numbers with what it has to tow a 21'.

And have a good time with your new 21'!
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:06 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill and Earline View Post
According to the 2003 owner's manual, the max tongue weight for the "weight carrying hitch" (the small receiver) is 500 lbs. The tongue weight for the "weight distributing hitch" (the larger receiver I just installed) is : V-6 2wd 670 lbs
V-6 4wd 640 lbs
V-8 2wd 730 lbs
V-8 4wd 700 lbs.
I think they're saying that the weight-carrying maximum is 500 lb of hitch weight and therefore (due to their assumption that 10% of the trailer weight is on the tongue) a 5000 lb trailer maximum. No matter what receiver you have, if you are using it in weight-carrying mode you are allowed only 500 lb of tongue weight and thus only 5000 lb of trailer weight.

The higher amounts of hitch weight allowed in weight-distributing mode leads to higher trailer weight limits, and that runs into drivetrain capability so there are different totals of different drivetrains. Because they are assuming the same 10% tongue weight, this also leads to different tongue weight limits.

I find this annoying, because the engine has nothing to do with hitch weight handling capability. If you tow a 6400 lb trailer with the V6 4WD (the total trailer weight limit), I see no reason not to be allowed the 700 lb tongue weight if you want, as long as you use WD and a receiver that can handle it. Basically, it seems like they specify a tongue weight for handling safety, and don't want you to go higher to make it easier on the vehicle's suspension and structure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill and Earline View Post
As you probably guessed, this represents 10% of the tow rating, so multiply by 10 to get the rating of each, at least in 2003.
Yes, that's the typical Toyota approach. In other models - such as my Sienna - 10% is assumed for weight-carrying, and 15% for weight-distributing.
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:12 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floating Cloud View Post
That is interesting that Toyota said weight carrying and weight distributing. Ours that they would refer to as carrying is in fact distributing that nearly 300 lbs. I mentioned.
Huh?
"Weight distributing" means that the hitch system includes a "weight-distribution" feature (and that feature is being used), which in turn means any kind of spring mechanism that prys between the tug and trailer to force the tug front and trailer axles to carry more load, and the tug rear axle less.
"Weight carrying" simply means supporting the trailer tongue weight without any kind of weight-distribution system.

The difference is not so much in the receiver, it's in how you use it, and how the hardware allows you to use it.
  • When you are not using the spring stuff (bar-type WD or Andersen No-Sway), you are operating in "weight carrying" mode. This is true even if your receiver is capable of being used with a WD system.
  • When you are using the WD system, you are operating in "weight distributing" mode; they assume that you are using it effectively, and allow a higher tongue weight.
This isn't just Toyota - that's how everyone works.

What do you mean by "Ours that they would refer to as carrying is in fact distributing that nearly 300 lbs" - you are clearly using WD, but are you using WD with a receiver that is only rated for weight-carrying?
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:37 PM   #50
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Brian, I was reading Bill's post #46 in which he appears to say what I was repeating. Not my statement, Toyota's apparently.
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