Towing 17B

[Brick]

We have a 2011 Honda Ridgeline and just love it. It has so many nice features, ie. 4 door with room for our 100# labradoodle, Radar, after putting a custom made mattress behind the driver's seat. He is comfortable and down low, not up on seat that moves up out of the way;
drives like a sports car, 4x4, awesome hidden, locked trunk compartment under truck bed, tailgate opens up/down or sideways, tow capacity is 5,000 lbs.
We have towed a 19' Kingfisher boat around 3,500 lbs and now tow a 20' Kingfisher hardtop which weighs around 4,000 lbs. I must admit that it towed the lighter boat easier.

Now, we are looking to buy an Escape trailer. We just need to figure out which model would work best for us.

We'll just have to make 2 trips if we decide to take our boat up North Island for our annual offshore fishing trip. There is no way we would trade our Honda for anything else.

[cpaharley2008]

Jon,
Get the new Hemi 8 speed, 16-18 towing and 20-22 not towing and you will have a 400 hp truck that gives you that Camaro "rush".

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brick

....tow capacity is 5,000 lbs.

It will tow a 21, a 19 or a 17. Be aware of your tow vehicle's CARGO capacity however, not just tow capacity.

Originally Posted by Brick

We have towed a 19' Kingfisher boat around 3,500 lbs and now tow a 20' Kingfisher hardtop which weighs around 4,000 lbs. I must admit that it towed the lighter boat easier.

Now, we are looking to buy an Escape trailer. We just need to figure out which model would work best for us.

I think you answered your own question. It will tow the 19 easier than it will the 21, and a 17 easier than a 19. Simple matter of weight and size.

I would suggest looking at the various models, and deciding on which is best for your needs and camping style. Since you're committed to your tow vehicle, and the capacities seem adequate for a 17, 19 or 21, go with the model you like best.

[Brick]

Thanks for mentioning the cargo capacity. I looked it up and the GCWR is 10,085 - 4,553 curb weight = 5,532 lbs left for people, cargo, and what we tow behind it. The GVWR is 6,050 which I guess means that if the truck is loaded, we can only tow a 4,000 GVWR trailer. This is sounding like the 17 might be more suitable and allow some leeway. We'll need to think carefully about this before we make any decisions.

Thanks again.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brick

Thanks for mentioning the cargo capacity. I looked it up and the GCWR is 10,085 - 4,553 curb weight = 5,532 lbs left for people, cargo, and what we tow behind it. The GVWR is 6,050 which I guess means that if the truck is loaded, we can only tow a 4,000 GVWR trailer. This is sounding like the 17 might be more suitable and allow some leeway. We'll need to think carefully about this before we make any decisions.

Thanks again.

Yessir. Now you're approaching it from an informed position. The "leeway" is something to have. Although, I don't think you'd have any trouble towing a 19 with a Ridgeline. Some have towed even a 21 with a Ridgeline. This thread is an example:

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...line-3589.html

[Rossue]

What about the Mazda CX-9? The couple who bought my 17B have one with a factory tow package, although like Baglo had to swap out the 1.5" receiver hitch with an aftermarket 2" for the WDH.

In comparing to the Rav4, Highlander, and Pilot I notice some facts:
(all are 4WD or AWD)

Wheel Base MPG Curb Wt. Tow Cap

Rav4 105 19/26 3699 3500
Highlander 109 17/22 4267 5000
Pilot 109 17/24 4497 4500
CX-9 113 16/22 4546 3500


I rented one on a trip and liked the ride. Looking at used ones near Cleveland on Cars.com I see you can buy one with 20-30K miles with AWD for around $20K. As mentioned previously, finding one with the tow package used is the thing, however it seems like this might be worth considering for a 17B.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Rossue

What about the Mazda CX-9? The couple who bought my 17B have one with a factory tow package, although like Baglo had to swap out the 1.5" receiver hitch with an aftermarket 2" for the WDH.

In comparing to the Rav4, Highlander, and Pilot I notice some facts:
(all are 4WD or AWD)

Wheel Base MPG Curb Wt. Tow Cap

Rav4 105 19/26 3699 3500
Highlander 109 17/22 4267 5000
Pilot 109 17/24 4497 4500
CX-9 113 16/22 4546 3500


I rented one on a trip and liked the ride. Looking at used ones near Cleveland on Cars.com I see you can buy one with 20-30K miles with AWD for around $20K. As mentioned previously, finding one with the tow package used is the thing, however it seems like this might be worth considering for a 17B.

I'm a fan of Mazdas, and I own a Mazda, but as a vehicle and not a tow. They generally have a lower towing capacity than similarly sized vehicles from other makes. A CX-9 has 3 rows of seating, and it's marketed in their brochures as a competitor of the Highlander and the Pilot. Yet, the Highlander and Pilot have much higher towing capacities. Also, I dislike it when a manufacturer won't post the GCWR so I can determine if it's suitable as a tow. Try finding the GCWR of a CX-9 and it's like looking for needle in a haystack. That number is important, and an owner can't calculate it. It comes from the manufacturer.

[Rossue]

What you say is true re Pilot/Highlander, however do you think a RAV4 would be better? The Mazda has the longest wheelbase and curbweight. The OP is asking for TV for 17B so am trying to think out of the box. Also, I understand that cost is important and know Toyotas sell sometimes for more used than new.

[Bobbito]

Originally Posted by Escape While You Can

EDarby, you might want to read a thread over on the FiberglassRV forum before you buy that RAV4.

I too think that you shouldn't write off the Toyota brand due to anecdotal stories. I heard a Tundra testimonial from a rancher in the Chilcotin area of BC back in 2005. I kept seeing Tundra trucks around and asked a rancher how he liked his He said that 80% of the ranchers in the area were driving them, pulled live loads with them and found they went 500,000 km without a major service. I have heard this same claim from others. Consumer Reports gave the truck the best repair record, so I went with it and haven't regretted it. Of course every brand has lemons, but so far our Tundra has been without trouble and is awesome on or off road. The one downside is its fuel economy. That could definitely be better.

Bob K

[gbaglo]

A new RAV4 is not a contender and pre-2013, suitably equipped, would be very difficult to find.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Rossue

What you say is true re Pilot/Highlander, however do you think a RAV4 would be better? The Mazda has the longest wheelbase and curbweight. The OP is asking for TV for 17B so am trying to think out of the box. Also, I understand that cost is important and know Toyotas sell sometimes for more used than new.

I agree with Glenn. A New RAV4 isn't going to work with a reduced towing capacity of 1500 lbs. They went in the direction of a car instead of what it used to be -- a very capable small SUV.

I do appreciate it when folks think outside of the box. The CX-9 could probably do a fine job towing a 17. It's just that I have no way of verifying that if the manufacturer won't give out the numbers needed - like GCWR.

I agree too that you pay a premium for a Toyota, but then you also enjoy higher resale value.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Brick

I looked it up and the GCWR is 10,085 - 4,553 curb weight = 5,532 lbs left for people, cargo, and what we tow behind it.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Brick

The GVWR is 6,050 which I guess means that if the truck is loaded, we can only tow a 4,000 GVWR trailer. This is sounding like the 17 might be more suitable and allow some leeway.

Yes, if you ever intend to carry 1500 pounds of people and cargo in the tug while towing then you need to plan for no more than 4000 pounds of trailer. The reality of life for most multipurpose vehicles is that they are used in different ways on different days: in this case, five people and a few hundred pounds of stuff one day, a driver and over half a ton of cargo another day... and perhaps two people, not baggage, and a 5000 pound trailer another day. I think the trick is to consider what combinations you need to accommodate for your purposes.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I agree with Glenn. A New RAV4 isn't going to work with a reduced towing capacity of 1500 lbs. They went in the direction of a car instead of what it used to be -- a very capable small SUV.

I don't see much change in the vehicle at all, other than the discontinuation of the V6. The current 4-cylinder RAV4 has the same towing capacity as the previous 4-cylinder RAV4. Of course, that doesn't matter for those wanting to tow a travel trailer.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I'm a fan of Mazdas, and I own a Mazda, but as a vehicle and not a tow. They generally have a lower towing capacity than similarly sized vehicles from other makes. A CX-9 has 3 rows of seating, and it's marketed in their brochures as a competitor of the Highlander and the Pilot. Yet, the Highlander and Pilot have much higher towing capacities.

That might have nothing to do with the vehicles, and everything to do with corporate approaches. I have a Mazda3, and Mazda endorses neither towing a trailer with this, nor flat-towing it (in various model years)... yet Mazda in other countries endorses substantial towing with the same (mechanically identical) car, and Ford in the North America endorses trailer towing (at least some years) and flat-towing their Focus which has the same chassis and transmission.

It's also possible that Mazda just doesn't have a transmission with enough capacity to allow the CX-9 to tow more; Toyota and Honda has a much broader range of larger models to share a higher-capacity transmission.

If I had a CX-9 I would certainly consider towing up to its rated limit.

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Also, I dislike it when a manufacturer won't post the GCWR so I can determine if it's suitable as a tow. Try finding the GCWR of a CX-9 and it's like looking for needle in a haystack. That number is important, and an owner can't calculate it. It comes from the manufacturer.

Yes, that can be a problem... and I think it's getting worse. I had to ask Ford customer service (not a dealer) to get someone to find a GCWR for my Focus. It seems like Toyota manuals have less loading information (such as GCWR) than the previously did for the same model. Maybe they need space to document all the "infotainment" junk that everything is full of now...

[Rossue]

Dang, wish I'd bought a CX-9 instead of that Murano. It would've been a better fit no doubt than the Murano for my 17B and wouldn't have needed that new Highlander which I traded in six months later after opting for a 21.

One spec I forgot to mention is it also has the best torque rating between it and the RAV/Highlander & Pilot: 270@ 4250 vs. 248@ 4700 & 253@ 4800 respectively.

While I know GCWR is truly important- does anyone think it would be less than a RAV4?

So, it has the longest wheelbase, the highest curb weight and best torque of above listed.

[Brian B-P]

I see that the CX-9 is built on the Ford CD3 platform, so as far as the chassis is concerned, it could have a GCWR comparable to the Fords on the same platform (previous gen Edge, etc), although the powertrain will more likely be the limiting factor.

[EDarby]

I am so confused now.
Just when I thought I had it all figured out!
Thank you all so much for the info and advice -- will continue my research and am just glad I have a few months to make a purchase.

[Jubal]

2015 Mazda CX-9 7-Passenger Vehicle - Specs & Features | Mazda USA
Select engine and mechanical option and scroll down to weights and capacities..

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by EDarby

I am so confused now.
Just when I thought I had it all figured out!
Thank you all so much for the info and advice -- will continue my research and am just glad I have a few months to make a purchase.

Ellen,
I re-read through all of this recently, just before we purchased a tow vehicle. I think my post (#3) still stands as a good possible summary of what has been discussed over the last month and a half.

BTW: Our choice: we just got a good deal on a 2011 Pilot (complete w/factory tow pkg.); we will add the 7 pin plug and plug-n-play harness at the rear (Curt 56097), and a P3 brake controller with plug and play harness (Tekonsha P3-3070P) under the dash, and will get the Pro Series WDH from ETI. And you thought it was Oh, so complicated.

[David H]

I tow a 2014 17B with a 2013 Honda Pilot and it tows just fine without the WDH. If you check the manual Honda does not recommend a WDH for towing with the Pilot, it does recommend a sway control if sway is an issue. I have towed in cross winds at highway speeds and sway has not been an issue.

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Ellen,
I re-read through all of this recently, just before we purchased a tow vehicle. I think my post (#3) still stands as a good possible summary of what has been discussed over the last month and a half.

BTW: Our choice: we just got a good deal on a 2011 Pilot (complete w/factory tow pkg.); we will add the 7 pin plug and plug-n-play harness at the rear (Curt 56097), and a P3 brake controller with plug and play harness (Tekonsha P3-3070P) under the dash, and will get the Pro Series WDH from ETI. And you thought it was Oh, so complicated.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Rossue

While I know GCWR is truly important- does anyone think it would be less than a RAV4?

No, but I have no published numbers to go on, and different manufacturers take different approaches to calculating GCWR. Besides, GCWR may be lower on some and higher on some because the weight of the tow is higher or lower. For instance, A "low" GCWR may mean very little if the weight of the tow vehicle is low.The only accurate way to determine if the tow is suitable is to be under all the capacities, including GCWR. With a published number, I can determine the weight of all cargo and passengers, the weight of the trailer, and THEN I will know if I'm towing under the max.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I see that the CX-9 is built on the Ford CD3 platform, so as far as the chassis is concerned, it could have a GCWR comparable to the Fords on the same platform (previous gen Edge, etc), although the powertrain will more likely be the limiting factor.

Most likely true.

Originally Posted by Jubal

2015 Mazda CX-9 7-Passenger Vehicle - Specs & Features | Mazda USA
Select engine and mechanical option and scroll down to weights and capacities..

Yep, been there, done that Jubal. Thanks for proving my point about the scarcity of numbers. The only number they show is "towing capacity", which is only part of the picture in selecting a suitable tow.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by David H

I tow a 2014 17B with a 2013 Honda Pilot and it tows just fine without the WDH. If you check the manual Honda does not recommend a WDH for towing with the Pilot, it does recommend a sway control if sway is an issue. I have towed in cross winds at highway speeds and sway has not been an issue.

Thanks, David, for the towing info. I noticed that bit by Honda when I read the manual. I'm doing some research into the ramifications of WDH use.