Towing 17B

[gbaglo]

I am trying to get into the habit of checking the brake controller ( to make sure I am connected ), every time I approach a brake check pull out for truckers.
I usually remember about 200 feet past where I can exit.

[rbryan4]

Brian, you hit on a key point. While the smaller SUV types are capable of towing a 17 (provided of course that their towing capacity is at least 3500 lbs), they usually suffer in the gas mileage department when doing so. Great when not towing, not so great with the trailer. I would say that there is a difference between body-on-frame vs unibody in towing that has nothing to do with capacities (although frame based towing capacities are usually higher for similar sized vehicles), and that difference is in the towing experience. For me, towing with a frame based vehicle just feels more confident.

[Vermilye]

Along with Glenn, I tow a 17B with a RAV4 Sport, a 2010 with tow package. I weight the trailer before each trip, and with 2 full propane tanks, a lightly loaded front storage box & a pair of 6V batteries on the rear bumper, the trailer weighs between 3000 & 3020 pounds, with 345 pounds on the tongue.

The RAV4 gets 25MPG highway, 21MPG around town, and 15MPG towing. The towing figure is averaged over 56,000 miles. I usually drive secondary roads & top speed is 60MPH (usually 57MPH).

As to braking, the RAV4 has 4 wheel disk brakes, and while I sure appreciate the trailer brakes, I have driven & stopped the combination without the brakes (a popped connector) and was surprised by how well the RAV4's brakes handled it (for those familiar with the area, down the hill on CA 62 between Joshua Tree & I 10).

What I like - good non towing mileage, plenty of power, a reasonable amount of inside storage space. What I don't like - small gas tank which can make for some hairy tows with headwinds in the southwest, and no outside storage that would be available in a pickup for wet or messy stuff. Overall, I'm happy with the combination.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Brian, you hit on a key point. While the smaller SUV types are capable of towing a 17 (provided of course that their towing capacity is at least 3500 lbs), they usually suffer in the gas mileage department when doing so. Great when not towing, not so great with the trailer. I would say that there is a difference between body-on-frame vs unibody in towing that has nothing to do with capacities (although frame based towing capacities are usually higher for similar sized vehicles), and that difference is in the towing experience. For me, towing with a frame based vehicle just feels more confident.

I think which has been mentioned before , the tow vehicle should have extra capacity beyond your needs just in case . I have had some scary moments on the road pulling a tent trailer . You need to be able to stop what is behind you in a emergency . Also pulling trailer behind you going up and down mountains is a lot different then going on the flats . Extra room in towing capacity, brakes , heavy duty trans , cooling etc. is a lot easier on your engine . You will pay for more fuel costs but I believe less wear and tear on your tow vehicle .what ever you decide have fun and safe travels .

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Along with Glenn, I tow a 17B with a RAV4 Sport, a 2010 with tow package. I weight the trailer before each trip, and with 2 full propane tanks, a lightly loaded front storage box & a pair of 6V batteries on the rear bumper, the trailer weighs between 3000 & 3020 pounds, with 345 pounds on the tongue.

The RAV4 gets 25MPG highway, 21MPG around town, and 15MPG towing. The towing figure is averaged over 56,000 miles. I usually drive secondary roads & top speed is 60MPH (usually 57MPH).

As to braking, the RAV4 has 4 wheel disk brakes, and while I sure appreciate the trailer brakes, I have driven & stopped the combination without the brakes (a popped connector) and was surprised by how well the RAV4's brakes handled it (for those familiar with the area, down the hill on CA 62 between Joshua Tree & I 10).

What I like - good non towing mileage, plenty of power, a reasonable amount of inside storage space. What I don't like - small gas tank which can make for some hairy tows with headwinds in the southwest, and no outside storage that would be available in a pickup for wet or messy stuff. Overall, I'm happy with the combination.

Jon,
Are these numbers from a truck scale? The reason I ask is that when I got weighed this year in Montana at a truck scale on I90, my numbers were 3800 and 500 on the tongue, which gives me a total 4300# gross weight. Your numbers would appear to also be similar and if so your gross weight is 3365#. That is less than 150# approaching your 3500# limit for your hitch is it not? My hitch is rated 5000# so I'm 700 lbs free, so to speak.

[escape artist]

Hi: cpaharley2008... Maybe Jon needs less blueberry pie and more "Slim fast". Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[gbaglo]

If he weighed the trailer, unattached to the tow, the tongue weight would already be included.

[EDarby]

Thanks for the good info, Jon. I had been looking into a RAV4--was pretty much set on it but then got nervous because of the 3500 max (on RAV4's 2012 and older). Someone I spoke to at EI suggested planning on 4000#. But now I'm thinking that isn't a big issue.

I love everything else about it -- size, gas mileage (and now reading about the quality of the brakes) and though I've never had a Toyota, know it has an excellent reputation.

Oh, so much to figure out. Fortunately, I have several more months.
But thanks to the input from this forum, I think I have it narrowed down to RAV4, Honda Pilot, Tacoma TRD4L.

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Along with Glenn, I tow a 17B with a RAV4 Sport, a 2010 with tow package. I weight the trailer before each trip, and with 2 full propane tanks, a lightly loaded front storage box & a pair of 6V batteries on the rear bumper, the trailer weighs between 3000 & 3020 pounds, with 345 pounds on the tongue.

The RAV4 gets 25MPG highway, 21MPG around town, and 15MPG towing. The towing figure is averaged over 56,000 miles. I usually drive secondary roads & top speed is 60MPH (usually 57MPH).

As to braking, the RAV4 has 4 wheel disk brakes, and while I sure appreciate the trailer brakes, I have driven & stopped the combination without the brakes (a popped connector) and was surprised by how well the RAV4's brakes handled it (for those familiar with the area, down the hill on CA 62 between Joshua Tree & I 10).

What I like - good non towing mileage, plenty of power, a reasonable amount of inside storage space. What I don't like - small gas tank which can make for some hairy tows with headwinds in the southwest, and no outside storage that would be available in a pickup for wet or messy stuff. Overall, I'm happy with the combination.

[EDarby]

To everyone who has posted:

When I received the email notification about a reply to my post, I didn't realize there had been SO MANY, thought there had been only the one. Yikes, sorry!

I haven't had a chance to read all the messages and must leave for work very shortly. But will read and absorb by tomorrow, hopefully.

Thank you to everyone!!!

[thoer]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I am trying to get into the habit of checking the brake controller ( to make sure I am connected ), every time I approach a brake check pull out for truckers.
I usually remember about 200 feet past where I can exit.

Good idea Glenn. On our last trip one of the brake wires on the trailer broke unbeknown to me. I found out when I had to do very fast stop from somebody turning in front of me and felt the trailer pull hard to one side. Took me a while and stopping experiments to figure out what was going on. I had to turn up the force on the brake controller until I got home and got it fixed.

[alan in alberta]

I have the 2012 V6 Rav4 and a 17B too

The small gas tank is an issue with me as well.

Other than that i would say as long as you have a good brake controller you will be fine with this combo

It has plenty of power, pulls well and has stopped in a hurry for deer ........

if i ever upgrade to the 19 or 21 i would probably like to have the 4 Runner upgrade though.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by alan in alberta

...if i ever upgrade to the 19 or 21 i would probably like to have the 4 Runner upgrade though.

The 4Runner is a great tow vehicle for any of the Escapes (maybe not the 5.0TA).

However, I would call going to the 19 or 21 from the 17 an "upsize" rather than an "upgrade".

[Vermilye]

The 3010 lbs weighted at the start of my last trip was the trailer alone on a certified scale at our local transfer station, with an accuracy of +/- 10 lbs. The tongue weight subtracts, so the axle weight is 2665; I'm not all that close. I also have the advantage that I travel alone (well, not always an advantage) so I have less weight in the RAV4 itself. Total weight of the RAV4 (loaded + a full tank of gas), me, and the hitch weight was 4400.

As to the idea that everyone with a 17B go out and get a V6 RAV4, I'd only suggest it if you travel the way I do. If you like to keep up with traffic, particularly on the interstates, I suspect you would be happier with a heftier tow vehicle. You do have to do some planning to keep the tongue weight within specifications - the first time I loaded up the trailer (I have a jig & 450 lb bathroom scale for measuring tongue weight) I was at 375 lbs. Had to move some stuff around to reach 345 lbs.

I strongly suggest knowing your actual weights (trailer & tongue) since they are so dependent on each individual's stuff & packing scheme.

[rbryan4]

Excellent advice Jon. The driver is an important variable too. And some of us "vary" more than others...

[gbaglo]

On the freeway I have trouble keeping my RAV4 at 90 kph ( 56 mph ) which is where I get the best fuel economy towing. I've found myself doing 120 kph ( 75 mph ) uphill, in the passing lane.
If I were in the market, which I'm not because I only have 72,000 kilometers ( 45,000 miles ) on the odometer, and if I had money to burn, I'd be looking at a 4Runner or Tacoma, but only so I could feel more manly.

[Chapitre]

I had a RAV4 - V6 with the 17B, and drove a fair distance, I think Jon is right , it depends on the driver. It was OK, but at times I was wishing I had something different - especially longer- the wheelbase of the RAV is the shortest of the vehicles you are considering.in .
I drove a fair amount of miles with it as well.
I would go for something different, the Pilot or Highlander.

[OneOleMan]

Originally Posted by thoer

Good idea Glenn. On our last trip one of the brake wires on the trailer broke unbeknown to me. I found out when I had to do very fast stop from somebody turning in front of me and felt the trailer pull hard to one side. Took me a while and stopping experiments to figure out what was going on. I had to turn up the force on the brake controller until I got home and got it fixed.

Times like that make me wish I had some big ole air horns to scare the .... outta them.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I would say that there is a difference between body-on-frame vs unibody in towing that has nothing to do with capacities (although frame based towing capacities are usually higher for similar sized vehicles), and that difference is in the towing experience. For me, towing with a frame based vehicle just feels more confident.

I'm not sure how one would determine that, without comparable vehicles... and it would be surprising for two otherwise comparable vehicles to be built with these different structural designs. For instance, you might try the 4Runner and Highlander - both V6 two-ton Toyota SUVs of the same wheelbase, the first with body-on-frame construction and the second with a unibody. The problem is that if there is a difference in feel (and I'm sure there is), it could be due to the structure... but it could be due to

• different engines
• different transmissions
• different type of front suspension
• different type of rear suspension (one independent and one not)
• different steering gear
• different tire size

I think a significant factor is that in a body-on-frame vehicle the hitch is attached to the frame, so the driver is isolated to some extent from feeling the trailer (by the body-to-frame mounts); that probably makes the driver more confident, but doesn't mean that the body-on-frame vehicle does a better job of controlling the trailer.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by OneOleMan

Times like that make me wish I had some big ole air horns to scare the .... outta them.

These'll work.

[alan in alberta]

Originally Posted by ice-breaker

However, I would call going to the 19 or 21 from the 17 an "upsize" rather than an "upgrade".

That is true it would be an upsize but the newer ones have lots of upgrades from my 2006 model

So far the 17 has been just the right size for us but we are planning longer trips now so maybe an upsize will be needed in a year or two