Towing 17B

[Mob2014]

The Jeep Grand Cherokee owners manual lists the maximum trailer frontal area as 55 sq ft.

[gbaglo]

I've read a lot of the RAV4 manual and never come across max trailer frontal area. Anybody else?

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by Mob2014

The Jeep Grand Cherokee owners manual lists the maximum trailer frontal area as 55 sq ft.

Looks like the 17 makes it: 6.67' wide x 8.17' tall = 54.5 sq.ft.

[OneOleMan]

What do they consider the frontal area, that which is above the roof of the TV and extends beyond the sides or the complete front area? I'm certainly no expert in these things but why would they consider any part of the trailer within the confines of the TV?

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by OneOleMan

What do they consider the frontal area, that which is above the roof of the TV and extends beyond the sides or the complete front area? I'm certainly no expert in these things but why would they consider any part of the trailer within the confines of the TV?

Because of the gap between the TV and the towed, the air stream tucks in behind the TV and then is forced back out by the front of the towed. E.G. road grime on the front of the towed. Similar to the reason you leave your pickup tailgate down for slightly better gas mileage.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

... So, a point worthy of mention at this point is use of, and need for, weight distribution hitches (WDH). ETI calls them equalizer hitches in their options list, though they do not provide the "Equalizer" brand of WDH, but (currently) the Reese (Cequent) Pro Series WDH.
ETI states in Frequently asked questions: "The EQ hitch evenly distributes the trailer tongue weight of the trailer throughout the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle and the trailer axle. All front wheel drive vehicles will require an equalizer hitch."
So, a WDH is required for our FWD candidates...

While the statement in the ETI FAQ is well-intentioned, it is simply not true. In fact, some tow vehicle manufacturers recommend against the use of a WDH, and in some cases ban WDH use. More typical is my front-wheel-drive Toyota Sienna, which requires a WDH only for tongue weights over 350 pounds - that means a WDH would be required for a 21', likely needed for a 19', possibly needed for 17' (depending on how nose-heavy the equipment), and unnecessary for the 13' (no longer produced) and a reasonably equipped and loaded 15'.

WDH use has much to do with rear suspension and Rear GAWR, and little to do with driven wheels.

Also, the tongue weight is not distributed by the WDH; instead, load is shifted from the rear axle to the other axles; you could transfer load with a WDH attached to a trailer with zero tongue weight if you wanted. The distribution caused by a WDH is not even between the axles; the ratio of transfer to the front and transfer to the trailer is determined entirely by vehicle dimensions (wheelbase and distance from rear axle to trailer axle), not by WDH design or adjustment.


I do get the point... in many cases WDH will be required, or at least desirable. In many cases - such as my Sienna - hitch receivers rated for WD use will not be mounted any differently from those not rated for WD.

[OneOleMan]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Because of the gap between the TV and the towed, the air stream tucks in behind the TV and then is forced back out by the front of the towed. E.G. road grime on the front of the towed. Similar to the reason you leave your pickup tailgate down for slightly better gas mileage.

Okay, gotcha, thanks.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

While the statement in the ETI FAQ is well-intentioned, it is simply not true. In fact, some tow vehicle manufacturers recommend against the use of a WDH, and in some cases ban WDH use. More typical is my front-wheel-drive Toyota Sienna, which requires a WDH only for tongue weights over 350 pounds - that means a WDH would be required for a 21', likely needed for a 19', possibly needed for 17' (depending on how nose-heavy the equipment), and unnecessary for the 13' (no longer produced) and a reasonably equipped and loaded 15'.

WDH use has much to do with rear suspension and Rear GAWR, and little to do with driven wheels.

Also, the tongue weight is not distributed by the WDH; instead, load is shifted from the rear axle to the other axles; you could transfer load with a WDH attached to a trailer with zero tongue weight if you wanted. The distribution caused by a WDH is not even between the axles; the ratio of transfer to the front and transfer to the trailer is determined entirely by vehicle dimensions (wheelbase and distance from rear axle to trailer axle), not by WDH design or adjustment.


I do get the point... in many cases WDH will be required, or at least desirable. In many cases - such as my Sienna - hitch receivers rated for WD use will not be mounted any differently from those not rated for WD.

Brian,
Ah, the response. Rather than parse out where I agree and not, the best course is to concur with your last statement, that in many cases WDH will be required, or desirable. I would add that for the smaller in stature TV's in the range of FWD TV's being considered, the WDH becomes more and more a necessary feature in the devices connecting the TV to the towed. Thanks for the input.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Since this thread started with Ellen asking about smaller tow vehicles with decent mileage, many of the candidates for TV are those for which the details are a bit more important.
So, a point worthy of mention at this point is use of, and need for, weight distribution hitches (WDH). ETI calls them equalizer hitches in their options list, though they do not provide the "Equalizer" brand of WDH, but (currently) the Reese (Cequent) Pro Series WDH.
ETI states in Frequently asked questions: "The EQ hitch evenly distributes the trailer tongue weight of the trailer throughout the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle and the trailer axle. All front wheel drive vehicles will require an equalizer hitch."
So, a WDH is required for our FWD candidates for higher mileage ratings in TV's, per ETI.
Two components with proper ratings are required: the WD hitch, which connects the trailer to the vehicle; and the receiver, which bolts to the TV: alert! alert! this is typically called "The trailer hitch".
If you look at the listings in my go-to place to acquire tow stuff, etrailer.com, you see, in the smaller print, the tow ratings. Some, but not all, have separate ratings listed for "weight-distribution towing capacity". These are our candidates for hitches (receivers). They typically have additional attachment points, and sometimes additional components, to transfer the lateral towing loads to the tow vehicle.

Hey, what can I say, it's all in the details.

Hi Don . Escape told me I didn't need WD or sway because of my truck . I originally had on build list then traded for the fancy wheels . When I am towing big rigs pass me nothing no sway . The truck is F 250 long bed . What do you think is there any advantage for getting anything or am I OK ? Would it help backing up ? I know truck is overkill but I already had . I just want to be safe . Towing my tent trailer when I was cut off , I almost lost control and thought I was going to die . I was towing with a F 100 truck at the time . What can I say Don I like trucks . But ? Do I need anything ? Pat

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Hi Don . Escape told me I didn't need WD or sway because of my truck . I originally had on build list then traded for the fancy wheels . When I am towing big rigs pass me nothing no sway . The truck is F 250 long bed . What do you think is there any advantage for getting anything or am I OK ? Would it help backing up ? I know truck is overkill but I already had . I just want to be safe . Towing my tent trailer when I was cut off , I almost lost control and thought I was going to die . I was towing with a F 100 truck at the time . What can I say Don I like trucks . But ? Do I need anything ? Pat

Pat,
You've got an F250; you're good to go. They don't call 'em "Super Duty" for nothing. ( If it would fit, you probably could just load the 19 in the bed!)

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Similar to the reason you leave your pickup tailgate down for slightly better gas mileage.

I thought that was under dispute or had been refuted. I vaguely recall seeing a video of a truck in a wind tunnel that showed flow was better with the tailgate up.

[gbaglo]

If your trailer is loaded properly, so that the tongue weight is 12 -15 per cent of the trailer weight ( about 320 lbs tongue weight ), you should have no problem towing with a F250, without a WDH or sway control.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I thought that was under dispute or had been refuted. I vaguely recall seeing a video of a truck in a wind tunnel that showed flow was better with the tailgate up.

Late model aerodynamically designed trucks, yes. Old cludge boxy ones, not so much.
GMC Pickups 101: Busting Myths of Truck Aerodynamics

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I've read a lot of the RAV4 manual and never come across max trailer frontal area. Anybody else?

This merely illustrates the fact that the Rav4 wasn't designed as a tow vehicle thus the owner's manual doesn't offer 13 pages on towing like my GMC's does.

[gbaglo]

Well, it has about 10 pages on towing, which doesn't prove anything.
I was just asking if anybody else had come across this spec in their manual.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Well, it has about 10 pages on towing, which doesn't prove anything.
I was just asking if anybody else had come across this spec in their manual.

I had read some Ford tow literature for their various trucks and SUV's a while back that differentiated between ratings for towing boats and for towing slab-front tows.
Nothing for Honda or Toyota.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Pat,
You've got an F250; you're good to go. They don't call 'em "Super Duty" for nothing. ( If it would fit, you probably could just load the 19 in the bed!)

Ok I am relieved. Thanks Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

If your trailer is loaded properly, so that the tongue weight is 12 -15 per cent of the trailer weight ( about 320 lbs tongue weight ), you should have no problem towing with a F250, without a WDH or sway control.

My trailer is a 19 towing with the f250 ? Pat

[gbaglo]

I still think you'll be fine, if you have the trailer loaded properly. Hooking up with a WDH is a aggravation I could do without if I didn't need it.
In any event, you can always add it if you are uneasy.
Tongue weight for the 19 seems to fall between 380 and 450, with some strange anomalies ( 220 lbs? for instance ). See http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...orld-2298.html

[padlin]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

My trailer is a 19 towing with the f250 ? Pat

No need for a WDH, sway control is up to you. If you get sway from passing trucks or cross winds you can add one. Out of curiosity, does the trailer ride level or slightly down in the front when hitched up?