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02-02-2015, 11:16 AM
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#141
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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Just remembered that at least for the 2013 model year all SE models had the tow package as standard- whether or not you got the factory receiver hitch.
I don't disagree that the aftermarket hitches are not a bad choice and if buying a used Highlander that didn't have one but had the tow package I would make it work as I have with other after market hitches on other vehicles. If you have to do an aftermarket just don't assume that the OEM is not competitive. When looking for one for my son's 2004 Highlander(gen 1) it turns out the OEM came with the wiring harness that just plugged in to a receptacle. It bolted on easily and we didn't have to buy the harness or maybe figure out how to wire it in, which can be very difficult on some vehicles. On our Murano it took the dealership over 6 hours(honored the 1.5 hour quote) and they had to remove the headliner!
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02-02-2015, 11:23 AM
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#142
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Get quotes.
I got my class III after market hitch and install, wiring and install of Prodigy brake controller ( I provided controller ), for $650. It was installed at the Toyota dealer ( they wanted to sell a car ).
The Toyota OEM class II hitch alone was almost $1,000.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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02-02-2015, 04:17 PM
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#143
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Just to reinforce what Ross said: the auto manufacturers don't cover everything you need for towing, but on the things they do cover they do some really good work. Definitely at least consider what is available.
We have the OEM receiver on our Sienna, and although it was significantly more expensive than aftermarket (but not by nearly as much as Baglo's), mounts the same way as aftermarket, and doesn't even integrate with the bumper... it still fits better and is constructed better than most aftermarket alternatives for this model of vehicle.
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02-02-2015, 05:51 PM
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#144
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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The nice thing about buying a newer vehicle set up for towing is that some trucks will already have your electric brake controller installed. They work in conjunction with the vehicle transmission and the on board computer for best use. In addition with tow mode activated the transmission will "engine brake" on those long down hill segments to save your brakes.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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02-02-2015, 06:02 PM
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#145
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Trailer: 2015 Escape 21
Posts: 699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
I believe Glenn Baglo has posted several times his tongue weight on the Escape 17, try him and or here are some numbers Trailer Weights in the Real World - Fiberglass RV
Any tow vehicle rated 350/3500 should be adequate. That said, going with a 500/5000 should allow you extra just in case you get the "2 foot itis" and want a Escape 19 later on.
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I would endorse going with your more conservative suggested hitch/towing limits of 500/5000 lbs. Not all tow vehicles live up to their towing specs equally. One issue I ran into with a Dodge caravan we had was that despite our tent trailer and load being within the tow limit, we went through 2 transmissions in 9 years. A transmission repair mechanic pointed out that the various manufacturers often overate the vehicle towing capacity, especially for more than occasional use. He showed me the friction disc sizes in the Caravan's transmission vs ones from a Safari van, and what a difference! His point was that the Caravan's transmission wasn't designed to tow, while the much larger Safari discs were actually the size of a truck transmission.
I'm guessing that the only place you would get reliable information on the longevity of tow vehicles is from forums like this. I think trucks wouldn't be an issue, but SUVs and vans might be over time. Even with trucks, manufacturers can rate their towing limits differently. Our 1996 F150 at its towing limit was scary, while our 2005 Tundra was much more manageable. Better brakes, engine power, etc with the Toyota and yet they had very similar towing limits (as per their manuals).
Bob K
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02-02-2015, 06:12 PM
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#146
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Caravan transmission wasn't designed to handle the van, never mind towing.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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02-02-2015, 06:54 PM
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#147
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Trailer: 2015 Escape 21
Posts: 699
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Exactly. You can't always believe the sales people or even the manual when buying a tow vehicle. Hopefully Ford is more conservative with their towing limits on their newer trucks.
Bob K
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02-02-2015, 09:08 PM
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#148
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
Caravan transmission wasn't designed to handle the van, never mind towing.
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2X! I've had 3 of them, and needed transmission repair on all of them. Only towing was an occasional utility trailer. While I loved the size & ease of stuffing things in it, I was glad to get rid of the last one & switch to a RAV4. Like Glenn, I tow a 17B, 56,000 miles so far. Tongue weight at 345 lbs & loaded trailer weight 3010 lbs.
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02-02-2015, 10:26 PM
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#149
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
... In addition with tow mode activated the transmission will "engine brake" on those long down hill segments to save your brakes.
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Engine braking is a valuable technique (when properly used), and transmission control features which do it automatically (when a grade descent is detected) and effectively (which requires locking the torque converter) are handy. Both my 2004 Toyota van and my 2008 Ford motorhome do this... towing or not. The van has this feature with or without the towing preparation package (and has no tow mode), and the motorhome has a tow/haul mode switch.
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02-03-2015, 08:53 AM
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#150
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Burlington, Vermont
Trailer: 2014 17b/ 2012 Chevy Colorado
Posts: 736
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We have towed our 17b about 1000 miles since January with our 2011 RAV4, tow package, and Anderson hitch. Plenty of power to maintain 65 mph up interstate passes although it downshifts to 4th gear. 2012 RAV4's should be coming off lease right now if you are interested.
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02-03-2015, 12:31 PM
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#151
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Trailer: 2015 Escape 21'
Posts: 280
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One thing to keep in mind relative to tow capacity is that the vehicles with factory tow package will typically have a greater tow rating. For example, a Toyota Tacoma V6 DC with factory tow has a rating of 6,400 lbs vs 3,500 lbs without. You can certainly add the tow components (hitch, oil, and transmission coolers), but you will not change the rating.
__________________
Tom & Linda
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02-03-2015, 02:24 PM
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#152
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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Excellent point. This fact has been covered in prior threads however is a good reminder to those just beginning to look for TV's.
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02-04-2015, 01:49 AM
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#153
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Oakland, California
Trailer: not yet
Posts: 166
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Nobody mentioned the Ford Escape Titaninum. 3500 lbs tow rating. Or the Flex, @ 4500 tow rating.
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02-04-2015, 09:18 AM
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#154
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2015 Escape 17A
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonardS
Nobody mentioned the Ford Escape Titaninum. 3500 lbs tow rating. Or the Flex, @ 4500 tow rating.
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The Ford made my "two-dozen" list, then the "top-ten" list, and I actually went to the local Ford dealer, looked at the one they had with the tow package, and talked with sales and with service. It dropped off my list because of price #1. You have to pay (lots) for frills and options you don't want to get what you do. Tow package is on the top-of-the-frills line.
They're relying on the I4 - turbo, 2 liter; you can't get the V6.
I did not want to deal with the long-term maintenance and reliability of a turbocharger that will be running at high load. (I've seen an engine with a blown turbocharger; it's not pretty).
Service could not even find the tow package info in their documents. YMMV.
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02-04-2015, 10:33 AM
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#155
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonardS
Nobody mentioned the Ford Escape Titaninum. 3500 lbs tow rating. Or the Flex, @ 4500 tow rating.
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Not touching this one with a 30 foot frontal area stick!
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02-04-2015, 10:46 AM
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#156
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Sandy, Utah
Trailer: 2015 Escape 17B
Posts: 141
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Ellen:
By now you've obviously gotten many opinions and much advice. A couple of things that you may want to keep in mind are: 1. while it may be overly conservative, the
recommendation that you maintain a 20% margin from the tow vehicle's tow rating is worth remembering. For our 2008 Toyota 4Runner, which has a rating of 5,000 lb. total and 500 lb. tongue weight, with the 20% margin, the net amounts are 4,000 lb. and 400 lb. tongue wt. 2. Actual weights of all trailers are often significantly heavier than "dry" weights provided by the trailer manufacturer. In fact, using data from the Fiberglass RV forum thread (and a few other sources), the average measured weight of 17Bs arriving at various events was total 2,981 lb. and 371 tongue wt. (N=10). Since we are committed to our 4Runner for (at least) the near future, we chose a 17B to remain within its towing limits (with 20% margin). The actual weights of the Casita 17s and the Escape 19 are too heavy for our 4Runner. While I know that other people are apparently towing closer to their TV rated capacity, we are not comfortable doing so. You may wish to consider these factors a you make your TV decision. I would suggest buying a vehicle that meets your everyday needs while being sure that it has adequate towing capacity to comfortably (and safely) tow the 17B.
Dave
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02-04-2015, 12:15 PM
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#157
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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I strongly suggest using real weights compared to actual limits, rather than base/dry spec weights and an arbitrary fraction of the tug's limits.
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02-04-2015, 03:20 PM
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#158
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
I strongly suggest using real weights compared to actual limits, rather than base/dry spec weights and an arbitrary fraction of the tug's limits.
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Spot on. Published numbers are one thing -- real weights are another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave & Penny Smith
while it may be overly conservative, the recommendation that you maintain a 20% margin from the tow vehicle's tow rating is worth remembering.
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I agree, but real numbers are more useful.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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02-04-2015, 05:56 PM
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#159
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Oakland, California
Trailer: not yet
Posts: 166
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Yes, Ford certainly makes it hard to buy their vehicles the way you might want them, as opposed to how they prefer to sell them. Making someone buy the premium "Titanium" package just to get the towing package...and they aren't officially rated for 3500 lbs unless you get their towing package, putting aftermarket hitches on doesn't count...is just plain greedy. That being said, over on the FGRV site a while back there was quite a discussion concerning the Ford Escape, with most folks that purchased one pretty happy overall with the performance, both towing and otherwise.
On another note, the 20% margin that is often quoted, as in get at least 20% more capacity in your tow vehicle than your trailer weighs, is either too much or not enough, depending on how you are going to use it. If someone has in mind touring the US and/or Canadian Rockies, then that might not be enough if they are the type that are bothered by having to pull into the slow lane and hang out with the semi's while ascending high altitude grades. Personally, if I have to slow down for a grade, that's not a problem for me, but some folks really want to proceed up mountains like they aren't pulling a trailer. 20% most likely won't be enough cushion for them.
But on the other hand, if one lives and plans to only be towing on gentle sea level grades, recommending 20% extra capacity just seems wasteful. One of the major reasons people get interested in these fiberglass wonders is that they are light and don't necessarily need a big tow vehicle.
I guess I'm trying to say, think about how and where you plan to tow before considering how much extra (or not) towing capacity you may need.
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02-04-2015, 05:59 PM
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#160
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Seattle, Washington
Trailer: 2015 17B Sold 5/2016
Posts: 343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
Spot on. Published numbers are one thing -- real weights are another.
I agree, but real numbers are more useful.
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I picked up my 17B today and according to ETI's “Certificate of Origin For A Trailer” it weighed in at 2725 lbs, that's with all the additions such as A/C, Solar, thermal window & extra insulation, etc,etc. The dual propane tanks are filled but there is no water in the tanks.
(Oh - can I say it towed like a dream?)
__________________
Pat
Life is Good
When "Escaping Reality" Sold 5/2016
2012 4Runner
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