Towing 19 or 17 with Tesla X?

[LJY]

Originally Posted by AnnL

Thanks; it's all a fairly new field, so we will be sure to do that. Just in the planning stages now for both the X and camper. We currently have an S, and the range decreases with a rocket box or bikes on top by up to 30% with headwinds. Have heard from an X owner that their range with a tear-drop style camper was about 50-60% of normal. We also have an F-150, so can use that if the range decrease would be so great that we couldn't reach the chargers... but it sure is nice to not have to use gas if we don't have to!

It's gonna be hard not to use propane gas when going camping LOL

[AnnL]

Haha, oh we're not purists and would definitely use propane with a camper to stay warm/cook. Used to have a pop-up travel trailer years ago when the kids were little, and also rented an RV while in AK for 3 wks and in Europe for a month - and always am amazed how long propane lasts!! BTW, that was really the way to travel Europe - be able to go wherever you wanted and not have to shell out $200/nt+ for rooms that only sleep 2!! It averaged out to less than $100/day for transportation and lodging for 4 of us.

[DMPortland]

I think it's great that you are considering an electric tow vehicle - a campground without exhaust and diesel fumes would be nice and also quieter. I would call this guilt-free camping with a reduced carbon footprint.

A thought I had was most of the charging stations I've seen are head-in parking for a 18' long parking stall - how would a 35'+ rig access without unhitching the trailer?

BTW our 5.0 F150 mileage:

City: 16 mpg
Highway: 19-20 mpg (best was 21 with a tailwind)
Towing a 2012 19' at about 3,300 lbs. with four bikes in the truck at 55 to 60 mph: 14-16 mpg range with most trips averaging just under 15 mpg.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by DMPortland

... Towing a 2012 19' at about 3,300 lbs. with four bikes in the truck at 55 to 60 mph: 14-16 mpg range with most trips averaging just under 15 mpg.

We get similar towing our 21', and that's why we especially appreciate the 38 gallon extended range gas tank on our 2016 F-150 tow vehicle.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Towing and gas efficiency is like an oxymoron as in giant shrimp or was that army intelligence, I get them confused.

I'm beelieve you meant "jumbo" shrimp, and yes, it's an oxymoron.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by DMPortland

... A thought I had was most of the charging stations I've seen are head-in parking for a 18' long parking stall - how would a 35'+ rig access without unhitching the trailer? ...

Interesting. All the Tesla charging stations that I've seen around here are back-in with about a 10' cable. Wouldn't be handy for charging a tow vehicle unless you pulled in across the lanes, effectively blocking all the other stations until you were charged up and pull away. Might have some unhappy fellow Tesla owners if you did that.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by AnnL

... Thank you, War Eagle, for your stats. Do you average around 15+ mpg with your F150 without towing?

Ann, Here in the Southeast, most of our current towing is relatively flat or gently rolling between 700 feet elevation and sea level at the gulf. I don't speed or jackrabbit start/stop and generally keep it around 65 on the interstate whether towing or not. That said, with our 2016 F-150 XLT SuperCrew 5.0L V8 FX4 5.5' bed, I've lately been getting between 20 and 22 mpg not towing, 14-16 towing. We also have a camper shell on the bed that I think helps a lot with the aerodynamics by reducing the frontal cross-section of the trailer.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by DMPortland

A thought I had was most of the charging stations I've seen are head-in parking for a 18' long parking stall - how would a 35'+ rig access without unhitching the trailer?

One option is to block other spaces. While I think that's ridiculous, I have seen published photos of people doing exactly that.

A reasonable person would unhitch... and immediately have a problem with illegally parking an unhitched trailer on a public road. Or check into a campsite, then make a trailer-free side trip to a charging station. Because what everyone wants to spend their camping time doing is taking the car to get charged.

This idea of towing with a battery-electric car just seems wildly inconvenient to me, but everyone has their own preferences.

[War Eagle]

Most Tesla charging stations I've seen here are at the back of large mall parking lots, plenty of space, so a bit more easy to unhitch, charge, then re-hitch. I did see two charging stations at a motel this past Summer. The two spaces were clearly marked for electric vehicle recharging. Problem was, they were the only two parking spaces under shade trees, so everyone wanted to park there for the shade - apparently not giving a hoot about any electric cars that might need charging. You just can't figure some people...

[Jimrules]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

The two spaces were clearly marked for electric vehicle recharging. Problem was, they were the only two parking spaces under shade trees, so everyone wanted to park there for the shade - apparently not giving a hoot about any electric cars that might need charging. You just can't figure some people...

In the electric vehicle community we call it being ICE'd.
(ICE = internal combustion engine)
The people who do it are often referred to as ICEholes.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

... I did see two charging stations at a motel this past Summer. The two spaces were clearly marked for electric vehicle recharging. Problem was, they were the only two parking spaces under shade trees, so everyone wanted to park there for the shade - apparently not giving a hoot about any electric cars that might need charging. You just can't figure some people...

Although there is no excuse for this behaviour, it might be that they figure that since they're paying just as much for the charging station as the EV driver, they're as entitled to use it. Still not rational or acceptable, of course.

When an EV is finished charging in this type of space, does the owner return and move it to a regular spot to free it up for the next user?

Since the charging stations serve only a tiny fraction of customers, the ones at the motel should have been placed in the far corner of the lot; instead, they were probably placed to minimize installation cost (of wiring) or maximize visibility (to enhance the company image). Most the charging stations that I have seen (which would be in Vancouver, as they are essentially non-existent here) are in prime locations - such as at curbside right in front of a restaurant - which generates resentment in other drivers.

Speaking of resentment, just wait until electric vehicle drivers start using 50-amp campsite power to charge their batteries for hours at a time...

[AKCamper]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Although there is no excuse for this behaviour, it might be that they figure that since they're paying just as much for the charging station as the EV driver, they're as entitled to use it. Still not rational or acceptable, of course.

Speaking of resentment, just wait until electric vehicle drivers start using 50-amp campsite power to charge their batteries for hours at a time...

Brian,
Good point. Not sure how much camping a Tesla owner would do if campgrounds started charging double or triple their fees for electric tow vehicles.

[Jimrules]

I guess this was an inevitable crossover between the two types of forums I spend my time on. Here goes.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Although there is no excuse for this behaviour, it might be that they figure that since they're paying just as much for the charging station as the EV driver, they're as entitled to use it. Still not rational or acceptable, of course.

This isn't necessarily true. While some places offer "free" charging, many stations charge a fee. They usually require an account and a card or a phone app to operate. Certain places, like some hotels, will only turn the power to the charging station on when asked by a costumer, and I've heard of some charging a small fee to do it.
There are also legal/regulatory issues regarding who's allowed to sell power and how they can charge for it.
I charge at home and I've only used public charging a handful of times so it's not been a big issue for me.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

When an EV is finished charging in this type of space, does the owner return and move it to a regular spot to free it up for the next user?

The nice ones do. It's just like camping there are some less thoughtful people out there.
Believe me this is a hot topic amongst EV owners.
It's also why some charging stations charge by the hour and some actually increase the rate as time goes on to encourage people to move. This whole thing is in its infancy so there's a lot to be worked out.
There are a lot of EV etiquette suggestions like this one.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Since the charging stations serve only a tiny fraction of customers, the ones at the motel should have been placed in the far corner of the lot; instead, they were probably placed to minimize installation cost (of wiring) or maximize visibility (to enhance the company image). Most the charging stations that I have seen (which would be in Vancouver, as they are essentially non-existent here) are in prime locations - such as at curbside right in front of a restaurant - which generates resentment in other drivers.

Yep, the worst spot to place a charging station is up front, and you're spot on with the reasons. Copper and trenching are expensive so they tend to be put up front. Some places want them visible for security reasons, or just to show them off.
The other problem is that unfortunately there are EV owners who use them as preferred parking and don't actually charge (known as EVholes)
Like I said there are jerks in all parts of society.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Speaking of resentment, just wait until electric vehicle drivers start using 50-amp campsite power to charge their batteries for hours at a time...

Oh believe me there's plenty of resentment out there already. I've been subjected to insults, political lectures and aggressive driving just because I like how smooth and quiet EV's are enough to actually drive one.

[thoer]

Jim which EV do you have?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by AKCamper

Not sure how much camping a Tesla owner would do if campgrounds started charging double or triple their fees for electric tow vehicles.

They might only need to add on the worst-case consumption cost... but that's about $30/day here, although even a Tesla Model S P100d owner wouldn't use that much for just the car.

An alternative would be to meter individual sites. Many campgrounds - including Nk'Mip in Osoyoos where the Escape annual meet is held - are already set up to do this, but only charge by the meter for monthly rentals. The administrative hassle could be significant, and wiring in meters just for this reason would be expensive. Perhaps that will become the standard at some point in the future.

[Jimrules]

Originally Posted by thoer

Jim which EV do you have?

We're on our second.
We had leased a BMW i3.
Now we bought a Chevy Bolt EV.
(Why Chevy named it Bolt when they already sell the Volt I'll never understand.)

[gbaglo]

I'm holding out for the Dolt.
Maybe the Jolt.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jimrules

This isn't necessarily true. While some places offer "free" charging, many stations charge a fee. They usually require an account and a card or a phone app to operate. Certain places, like some hotels, will only turn the power to the charging station on when asked by a costumer, and I've heard of some charging a small fee to do it.

Good point, for those which charge, and are not subsidized by government programs.

Originally Posted by Jimrules

There are also legal/regulatory issues regarding who's allowed to sell power and how they can charge for it.

An interesting point. Doesn't seem to be problem for campgrounds, but of course they're in a business which provides accommodations (and so would be expected to handle power costs); a restaurant or store could be in a different situation.

Originally Posted by Jimrules

It's also why some charging stations charge by the hour and some actually increase the rate as time goes on to encourage people to move.

I noticed that Tesla has some sort of fee for owner who leave their cars at Superchargers, even if the power and legitimate use of the facility are included in the purchase price for that car.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Jimrules

We're on our second.
We had leased a BMW i3.
Now we bought a Chevy Bolt EV.
(Why Chevy named it Bolt when they already sell the Volt I'll never understand.)

I started to look into them and then read an analysis of whether an EV was a practical buy (clean energy wise) It showed equivalent mpg ratings for an EV based on how your electricity is generated. For our area of Wisconsin, we are so heavily coal generated, an EV would not be practical from a reduced carbon footprint perspective at least compared to a small hybrid. Now if we had enough of our own solar that we could charge it that way it would be a whole different ballgame.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jimrules

Now we bought a Chevy Bolt EV.

The Bolt is essentially unavailable here - AutoTrader (new car listings) shows 80 available in the whole country and only one in Alberta. EVs in Canada are sold almost entirely in the three provinces with government subsidies (British Columbia, Ontario, and Quebec); everywhere else they're too expensive, and the people willing to pay anyway still have trouble getting them because they dealers don't want to carry them or the manufacturers don't want to supply them.

Originally Posted by Jimrules

(Why Chevy named it Bolt when they already sell the Volt I'll never understand.)

My question would be... why use the most clearly electric name (of Spark, Volt, and Bolt, so far) on a hybrid instead of saving it for one of the battery-only electrics? For that matter, why waste "Spark" on an interim model and leave "Bolt" for the purpose-built model? Marketing is often puzzling.