Towing a 17B?

[fudge_brownie]

baglo

You are correct in that there is a dearth of towing numbers for the 2008 RAV. It seems Toyota never published a gross combined weight rating, at least one I could find. Furthermore there are differences between US and Canadian models in what is included in the tow package and even if it is included. Finally there is the hitch; apparently if you have the $900 Toyota hitch the vehicle is rated to tow 3500 lbs. If you bought or had installed a third party hitch the vehicle is rated for only 2000 lbs. The difference is 16 mounting points versus 4 mounting points.

Without GCWR the best you can do is interpolate. If your trailer is less than 3500 lbs, you are done with that portion. The 17B seems to top out at around 3,000 lbs on the fiberglassRV results, you could confirm your numbers on a scale.

The 2008 Toyota RAV4 Sport V6 4x4 has a gross vehicle weight of 4,720 lbs. and a curb weight of 3,371. This gives you 1,349 to play with. From this you need to subtract the contents of the vehicle; be sure to include items like the hitch, a weight distribution hitch, tongue weight, fuel, passengers, roof mounted items and gear.

I am not sure how to compare these figures with what you arrived at. That third seat is a mystery unless that is part of the towing package. The tow package “includes a heavy-duty radiator and fan, transmission oil cooler, and 150-amp alternator. The tow package increases the RAV4's pulling capacity from 2,000 to 3,500 pounds.”

Another option I have seen is calling Toyota Customer Service and checking if they have the GCWR. I have heard that the number can be calculated, not sure how. Your experience is similar with what I encountered on my Toyota 4Runner, I only found a number that someone posted after talking with Toyota, nothing published. If that is Toyota way of doing things I do not know.

[gbaglo]

Thanks. It's not just me...
I do have an after-market hitch by Hidden Hitch. It is rated at 4,000 lbs according to a technician I talked to at Hidden Hitch.
I have the tow package.

baglo

[Eric D]

Barry (reply #16) said: “I think you will find that the 3500 lbs includes the cargo in the vehicle and the trailer.”

So what I interpret that to mean is that:
GCWR – Veh curb wt = towing capacity.
Which I confirmed with a number of sources:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...hicle/gcwr.htm
http://www.ford.com/help/glossary/?letter=t
No definition for Towing Capacity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towing
http://www.ehow.com/about_5163393_towing-capacity.html
“…subtract the loaded weight of the towing vehicle from the combined weight vehicle capacity and it will tell you how much weight you can tow.”

GCWR for 2006 to 2009 models can be found here:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...cle/gcwr10.htm
but these numbers appear to be for the basic models only (which is rather weird since one would think that they would have used the “towing package” numbers instead) since they list the towing capacity of a Ford Escape as 1500.

So the numbers stated here for a basic 2009 Ford Escape are:
GCWR 4940
Curb wt 3299
Towing capacity 1500
Thus GCWR – curb wt = towing capacity or 4940-3299=1641 (which is more or less 1500), so it seems to work.
And if adding the tow pkg to the Ford Escape increases towing capacity from 1500 to “about 2000 to 3500 lbs” as suggested by Toyota for the RAV4 (Paul Braun reply #20), then one might expect the GCWR to increase also by about 2000 to 3500 lb also, bringing the GCWR for a Ford Escape w tow pkg to about 5000+2000=7000. Then it makes sense.

So in my scenario with a Ford Escape w tow pkg pulling a 17B:
GCWR 7000
Curb wt 3542 (I found that somewhere – greater than the basic curb wt of 3299)
Cargo 815 (extra wt for driver over 150+3 adult passengers+200 cargo)
Tlr dry wt 2100
Tlr load 1000
Clothes etc. for 4 = 100
Dishes etc. = 75
Holding tanks = 2 x 5 gal each = 2 x 5 x 40 = 400
LP=50
Options = tv+a/c+? = 300
Say 950 lb (so 1000 as a conservative estimate isn’t so far off an estimate for an average tlr)
Total = 7442 which is close to the upgraded GCWR.

So all in all, it seems that a Ford Escape would work and I guess that’s why you all seem to be doing fine with your RAV4 w tow pkg, etc.

Thanks all for sharing. Now the question is: would I really need a Class III WD hitch (aside from increasing the safety margin and peace of mind?) when the Ford Escape seems to be equipped OK.
Eric

[thoer]

"Now the question is: would I really need a Class III WD hitch (aside from increasing the safety margin and peace of mind?) when the Ford Escape seems to be equipped OK. "

From my experiences a WD hitch is well worth the money. A more stable towing experience, a more comfortable ride in our Tacoma and the resistance to sway makes them money well spent.

Eric

[gbaglo]

The WDH transfers some of the load to the front ( driving ) wheels which is why Reace recommends it.

The RAV is mostly front wheel drive, sending power to the rear only when required. I believe the Escape works the same way.

So, imagine climbing a hill on a gravel road with the front (driving) wheels un-weighted. And, the WDH improves stability.

baglo

[gocamp]

Those that have a WDH, do you have to unhook it when you back up? If so, do you ever find it inconvenient? Maybe in and out of gas stations.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by gocamp

Those that have a WDH, do you have to unhook it when you back up? If so, do you ever find it inconvenient? Maybe in and out of gas stations.

The only time I unhook my Equalizer hitch is when I'm unhooking the trailer.

[RickM]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

The only time I unhook my Equalizer hitch is when I'm unhooking the trailer.

Same here, no problems backing up with the WDH.

[amirie]

It comes off when the trailer is parked at home--thats it...

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Laura & Rick

Same here, no problems backing up with the WDH.

I'll add one more voice to the "same here".

Eric

[hippo]

My tow rig does not need a WDH. When we went to the factory for delivery I asked Reace to help me install the WDH brackets on the trailer he looked at me and said put it back in the truck, you don't need it.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by hippo

My tow rig does not need a WDH. When we went to the factory for delivery I asked Reace to help me install the WDH brackets on the trailer he looked at me and said put it back in the truck, you don't need it.

And, you didn't need the WDH. You have a rear wheel drive truck. So, the weight from the hitch is applied to the rear ( driving ) wheels.
If you have a front wheel drive vehicle or AWD or part-time four wheel drive, the driving wheels are at the front. The rear wheels become drive wheels only when the front wheels aren't doing the job. The WDH transfers some of the weight from the rear to the front.

Which is why Reace says you need a WDH for those vehicles.

baglo

[thoer]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

And, you didn't need the WDH. You have a rear wheel drive truck. So, the weight from the hitch is applied to the rear ( driving ) wheels.
If you have a front wheel drive vehicle or AWD or part-time four wheel drive, the driving wheels are at the front. The rear wheels become drive wheels only when the front wheels aren't doing the job. The WDH transfers some of the weight from the rear to the front.

Which is why Reace says you need a WDH for those vehicles.

baglo

In my opinion I don't think that it is clear cut rear vs front wheel drive, that the capacity of the vehicle is also part of the equation.

A Tundra probably has much stronger rear springs than my Tacoma and most likely rated at more tow capacity. My owners manual states that Toyota advises the use of a WDH with my Tacoma and I agree with Toyota. Before hooking up the WDH the trailer, the tongue weight drops the rear of the truck. When we bought Blue, Reace carefully adjusted the WDH so the the rear of the truck was the same height with and without Blue attached. He didn't say anything about not needing a WDH for our setup. He did say that we wouldn't need any additional anti-sway mechanism, that the WDH itself would help prevent sway in our setup. I have driven our setup without the WDH installed and there is a clear difference in the ride and how the entire rig feels. I wouldn't travel without the WDH for our setup.

Eric

[Devil Dog]

Hi, I'm picking up a new 17'-B next month and pulling it with a 06 Tacoma.
I was wondering if I need a drop receiver and what size ball does the hitch require?

[barry]

The trailer uses a 2" ball. As for the hitch hight there is discussion about that in this thread, http://escapeforum.org/index.php?topic=177.0 ,the second and third posts reference a high lift axle and a regular one.

If you get the WDH through Reace you can adjust the hight of these to match your tow vehicle.

Barry

[Devil Dog]

Thanks for the link Barry. The 19" hight is close to what I have On the truck.

Mike

[Vermilye]

For those interested in weight for a 17B, mine is packed for a 5 month trip. Trailer options that add weight include A/C, dual 6v batteries & propane, solar, 5 cu. ft. refrigerator, electric tongue jack, and front storage box.

Trailer weight with empty black & grey & 1/3 fresh water - 3020 lbs (still need to add food to the refrigerator if the repair parts ever come in to Camping World) Tongue weight - 340 lbs.

The dual propane, electric jack & front storage box required a bit rearranging of stuff to keep the tongue weight down...

[PAB4]

Is yours a four wheel drive or two wheel?

[Vermilye]

The RAV4 is a 2010 Sport, which comes as a 4 wheel drive V6 (and run flat tires, which are a joke). In addition, it has the tow package. While the RAV4 calls itself a 4 wheel drive, and can be locked in 4 wheel drive, once you exceed 25MPH it switches to front wheel drive, locked or not. A weight distribution hitch is essential to good traction, braking, and handling.

I'm up to 39k towing miles, still feel it is a good choice for my style of travel (57 MPH towing on secondary roads). I have been towing at 60MPH on the western part of I 10, and just the 3MPH difference cuts MPG by a mile or two. I much prefer secondary roads. Since it is my daily driver, the 25MPG unhooked is great. I will admit to wishing for more torque or better gearing in the mountains, but accept that I will be pulling some hills at 40MPH in 2nd gear.

[brightday]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

For those interested in weight for a 17B, mine is packed for a 5 month trip. Trailer options that add weight include A/C, dual 6v batteries & propane, solar, 5 cu. ft. refrigerator, electric tongue jack, and front storage box.

Trailer weight with empty black & grey & 1/3 fresh water - 3020 lbs (still need to add food to the refrigerator if the repair parts ever come in to Camping World) Tongue weight - 340 lbs.

The dual propane, electric jack & front storage box required a bit rearranging of stuff to keep the tongue weight down...

Could you please clarify for me? I have a Toyota Sienna FWD with tow kit and am hoping to purchase and tow a 17B. (I plan to add the sway bar and WDH, check that the tires are properly inflated, and take all of the other precautions.) I understood - perhaps falsely - that the 3500 tow capacity for my Sienna included the TOTAL LOADED WEIGHT of the 17B PLUS the TOTAL WEIGHT of everything I load into the van. I've removed all of the seats but the front two from the Sienna so understand that I can replace that weight, but if I load my 15' trailer as you did, it does not appear that I have leeway to carry much of anything beyond that weight in the Sienna - despite the extra space made available by the removed seats. Or am I missing something? I see that you've since replaced the 15' trailer, but as yours is the first post I've found to get to these specifics with which I'm concerned, I'm hoping you can provide an answer and thank you in advance for it.