Towing a 5.0 TA with a Tacoma - thoughts?

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

By the way, bigger is better, you will see when you order your new Escape 5.0TA.

Cheers
Doug

You hush now. First I need to be retired, like you.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

One of the main reasons I went to a moulded fiberglass trailer, was to get away from the old mentality, of "Bigger is Better", for both the trailer AND the tow vehicle. There is no way I could ever be convinced you would need anything larger than a 1/2 ton, like your Dodge Steve, to tow the 5.0TA. Heck, look at Alf who is doing good with something much smaller.

What constitutes a pickup being "designed" to pull a fifth wheel. As long as the hitch is mounted firmly to the frame, there should be no issue. One would have to ensure the capacities are not surpassed. How much weight is on the hitch of a 5,0TA?

Jim ,I am not disagreeing with your logic . My owners manual shows that only bumper hitches are approved for my 1/2 ton truck . You have to go to a 3/4 or 1 ton tricks before they list 5th wheel / gooseneck as approved hitches for the vehicle. . My dealer says he will install the factory bumper hitch on my truck but they will not install a 5th wheel hitch
( liability ?) . My question is " Why when the 5th wheel trailer falls within the limit of the vehicle ,are the dealer and the factory advising against towing a 5th wheel trailer" Since I am not an automotive engineer ,I tend to believe there is a reason for their admonition. Again I am not questioning your judgement but is there something we are not aware of ?
I am old school and remember what my Dad told me "Just because you can does not mean you should " We are planing on looking at an Escape 5.0 TA but I am leery of loosing my warranty on a brand new truck by towing a 5th wheel trailer. Thank you for your post!!

[ATHiker]

Even if you go to a 1/2 ton PU, you have to be careful of payload. I am in a similar situation, where I have a Tacoma and am concerned about its ability to tow the Escape 21. I looked at F150 FX4 Ecoboost today and it only had 1380 lbs of payload. My Tacoma has 1200 lbs. I have narrowed my search to the Tundra and F150. I can't decide between the 5.0L and the 3.5L Ecoboost. With the F150, you need to make sure it has a higher GVWR. I think the salesmen get tired of opening the driver door so I can look at the sticker.

[Jim Bennett]

Sometimes I do wonder if these dealerships are just trying to cover their butts, fearing saying anything but what is extremely safe. I could see if they did not advise doing something, but to say your warranty is void if you do so, even if it causes no harm, is just wrong in my books.

My dad used to always say "Don't believe everything you are told". That works better for me. LOL

As mentioned here before (with pressure applied by Doug), I too really like the 5.0TA, and who knows, maybe some day..............

[padlin]

Tom, on the off chance you don't know, you can get the F150 in many payloads, 1380 is one of the lower.

[kvermeulen]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Sometimes I do wonder if these dealerships are just trying to cover their butts, fearing saying anything but what is extremely safe. I could see if they did not advise doing something, but to say your warranty is void if you do so, even if it causes no harm, is just wrong in my books.

My dad used to always say "Don't believe everything you are told". That works better for me. LOL

As mentioned here before (with pressure applied by Doug), I too really like the 5.0TA, and who knows, maybe some day..............

The problem with no wrty is in the past and present. Too many half ton trucks had been pulling far too heavy a fifth wheel. Too many trailer mfgs have been trying to sell the "half ton towable line". Hence too many light trucks having problems.

i would not worry as the percentage chance of a wrty problem are small because u are towing such a lite package.

i am going to buy new sierra and wont let the wrty thing sway my choice.

ken

[Charlie & Lucy]

Thanks everyone. So many good points! After all of this back and forth I've started looking for a two or three year old F150 Supercab 6.5' box. There are a lot of them out there. I've seen them with 1,700# payload and 7,700# tow capacity which will make the whole traveling experience better. 'Plenty of time to find it.
Happy Camping,
'13 Tacoma
Escape 5.0TA (next Sept)
Charlie

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I have talked to 3 Ram dealers ,1 Chevy dealer and Ram factory customer assistance and all have advised me that 1/2 ton trucks are not designed to tow a 5th wheel trailer .Also if I modify my vehicle to accommodate towing a 5th wheeler ,my warranty may be affected . The problem seems to stem from how the truck was designed and exceeding the GVWR ,RAWR and the payload capacity of the vehicle.

Those are all valid concerns (as Steve knows from hitting GVWR issues with even a conventional trailer), but the dealers are probably also assuming that "fifth wheel" means something much larger than an Escape 5.0TA, leading to global advice against fifth-wheels.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

From what I understand you could run as high as 1000LBS hitch weight, depending on how you load. Any half ton truck should handle it with no issues.

At 1000 pounds of pin weight, 100 pounds of hitch, and two typical adults in the front seats, most base-level "1/2 ton" pickups are out of payload capacity... with no other passengers, and no cargo in the truck. That's not "no issues" to me, but then I would certainly shoot for less than 1000 pounds of pin weight.

[PGDriver]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

At 1000 pounds of pin weight, 100 pounds of hitch, and two typical adults in the front seats, most base-level "1/2 ton" pickups are out of payload capacity... with no other passengers, and no cargo in the truck. That's not "no issues" to me, but then I would certainly shoot for less than 1000 pounds of pin weight.

Hi Brian

Its no issue to me as my truck is rated for 1850LBS payload, so by my math I have lots to spare...

Cheers
Doug

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Sometimes I do wonder if these dealerships are just trying to cover their butts, fearing saying anything but what is extremely safe. I could see if they did not advise doing something, but to say your warranty is void if you do so, even if it causes no harm, is just wrong in my books.

My dad used to always say "Don't believe everything you are told". That works better for me. LOL

As mentioned here before (with pressure applied by Doug), I too really like the 5.0TA, and who knows, maybe some day..............

The writing almost infers a Scottish accent. "If it's not Scottish it's crap" https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gGlB8A6XMi_COg
My 21 going on 15 son uses this same type of expression with authority unfortunately for me.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

Its no issue to me as my truck is rated for 1850LBS payload, so by my math I have lots to spare...

Excellent
Those who don't get the right payload package like this and assume "any half-ton" is suitable may not be in such good shape.

That's the joy and challenge of pickup trucks... they are still highly configurable, so there's lot of potential in the right choices, but also lots of pitfalls in the wrong choices within the same truck model.

[Josh.W]

Haven't seen Alf chime in but I know he pulls a 5.0TA with a Nissan Frontier. He used the same vehicle before to tow a 5.0 and is happy with both. My wife Sonya and I are still in our 17ft Casita but are definitely planning on getting a larger trailer (and have corresponded a lot with Alf about this).

I happen to prefer Toyota, having three in the family right now, the oldest being a 98 Land Cruiser with 347K miles on it, which has been the tow vehicle for the Casita. I did a lot of checking on the Tacoma vs the Tundra, and came to the conclusion that the Tacoma would struggle. The Tacoma has less HP and Torque than the Frontier, which may be the reason why Alf is satisfied with his combo (and says he gets great mileage, something like 15mpg towing, if I remember correctly - Alf?).

I finally corresponded with Escape and asked for their opinion. They say they pull a 5.0TA with an F150 Eco-Boost and are happy with that. They mention that there are folks that are happy with a Dodge Ram (I think the 1500). But more to the point, i.e. Toyota, they recommend going with the Tundra (which they think is a fine truck), rather than the Tacoma.

As an aside, Sonya and I ran into a couple with a brand new 21' Escape in an RV park in the LA area (Bill and Giselle). They were pulling with a V6. 4Runner was a bit disappointed with the combo, especially since the tongue weight made the 4Runner squat pretty low. He hadn't put on air bags yet, so that might help, but they definitely had to cut back on the amount of weight they were putting in the extra, front storage compartments on the tongue.

For the first year Sonya and I had the Casita, we towed with an 86, V6, manual trans 4Runner. It did OK, but it was definitely struggling going through mountain passes in Colorado. Much as I like the Tacoma, and am not so happy about having to go to a full-size truck in my "old" age, if we go with the Escape 5.0TA, I'm definitely going to vote for the Tundra, and probably with the 5.7L V8. I don't think there is a huge difference in gas milage between the 5.7 and the smaller V8, so I'd like to have the reserve and stress the motor and tranny less. Course, Sonya would rather go the other way, and get the higher mpg. Way I figure it, anything has to be better than the 10mpg on premium that we get with the Land Cruiser and the Casita. Much as I love the old LC, she's definitely not up for pulling anything heavier or bigger than the Casita, no matter what the specs say.

My two cents.

Josh and Sonya W.

[Rossue]

Glad to see the ETI comment re: Tundra. Met Bill & Giselle at Rally. ETI might consider an adjustment to their webpage:

Escape Trailer Industries now offers a full line of RV travel trailers – 15’,17’,19’,21’ and a 21’ tandem axle fifth wheel (Escape 5.0TA), all designed for smaller and mid-sized tow vehicles.

Maybe this was true before the 21 & 5.0 but is it really correct now?

[Josh.W]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Glad to see the ETI comment re: Tundra. Met Bill & Giselle at Rally. ETI might consider an adjustment to their webpage:

Escape Trailer Industries now offers a full line of RV travel trailers – 15’,17’,19’,21’ and a 21’ tandem axle fifth wheel (Escape 5.0TA), all designed for smaller and mid-sized tow vehicles.

Maybe this was true before the 21 & 5.0 but is it really correct now?

Yes, I've thought about that as well. I think that at least as far as the 5.0TA their answer would be not (i.e. better to go with a full-size pickup). But remember, Alf is still very comfortable with his Frontier/5.0TA combo; it's his rig that is showcased in the website photos. The extra HP and torque of the Frontier might make the difference...but I'm a Toyota guy.

[T&R]

Good thread. I too am like some that have ordered a 5.0TA and in need of a tow vehicle. I was surprised to read you can get different payload capacities within the same make & model of truck. Must depend on what options each rig has. Definitely something to watch out for.

I was just checking out Tacoma and Tundra specs direct from their respective owner's manuals. A 2015 Tacoma 4wd Double Cab V6 has a vehicle capacity weight of just 1040 lbs. 600 lbs. of DRY hitch weight for a 5.0TA uses up a large chunk of that. Tundra is surprisingly not much better; 2015 Tundra 4wd Crew Max 5.7 w/tow package has vehicle capacity weight of 1360lbs.

Regarding the MPG of the Tundra; the 4.6 is rated 14/18 vs. 13/17 in the 5.7.

But in my experience you actually get the advertised mpg's if not better in a Toyota. I currently own a 2014 v6 Mustang and it does NOT get anywhere near what the window sticker says. It's rated 19/29. Best I've gotten is 23 on the highway and close to 18 in town. And that's conservative driving TRYING to get good mileage. I fully expect there to be a class action lawsuit against Ford some day about their mpg ratings. People were upset when the F150 w/Ecoboost came out because they did not get the mileage they were advertised with.

[padlin]

I would expect the Tundra w/5.7 while towing is more in the 10-12 mpg range, maybe 13 with an Escape, pretty much standard for a full size truck. The new diesels may be different.

If you buy any truck, loaded with all today's comforts, built to tow, haul, and go where no man has gone before, mpg goes out the window. Understandably manufacturers and dealers don't put 2 + 2 together for you. You can get that higher mpg that's advertised with the Ecoboost, or close to it, if properly configured.

[ATHiker]

There seems to be a number of forum members who are towing Escapes with a Ford F150 Eco Boost. I would be interesting to know their real world towing MPG.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by ATHiker

There seems to be a number of forum members who are towing Escapes with a Ford F150 Eco Boost. I would be interesting to know their real world towing MPG.

Tom, that's a subject I've been watching carefully on this forum and other sources. There's a variance of course depending on whether it's a 17, 19, 21, etc, as well as your driving style. But, from what I've seen the reported real world MPG towing an Escape with the EcoBoost V6 (NON-4WD) is in the 15-16 range. Pretty much what we expected. I'll have hard numbers in all different types of terrain/conditions once I've towed our 19 from Canada to Texas.

[kvermeulen]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Tom, that's a subject I've been watching carefully on this forum and other sources. There's a variance of course depending on whether it's a 17, 19, 21, etc, as well as your driving style. But, from what I've seen the reported real world MPG towing an Escape with the EcoBoost V6 (NON-4WD) is in the 15-16 range. Pretty much what we expected. I'll have hard numbers in all different types of terrain/conditions once I've towed our 19 from Canada to Texas.

Towed the old 5.0sa at 55 to 60 ang always got 16 to 18mpg cdn.
kept log book too. That was with the sierra.

also note the sierra is avail with 6.5 ft bed in crew cab in 1500 series.

ken