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Old 03-05-2014, 03:06 PM   #61
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To play devils advocate here there is something to remember though. with higher engine rpm to get all that power comes heat. So screaming a engine at high rpm to get that last bit of power can cause over heating issues. typicaly most of us are towing in the summer months when ambient temps are higher so this does need to remembered.
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Old 03-05-2014, 03:24 PM   #62
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I owned an 06 Tacoma with a 6spd manual and towed a friends trailer which was around 4300lbs over two passes. One of the passes topped out at 9800ft and I felt the Tacoma was really struggling to make it over the pass. The hardest sections were the switchbacks where you had to slow down and then work to get back up to a reasonable speed. The grades of the pass hit 7% in sections so it is a steep pass. Luckily we were doing this in late fall so the temperatures were very cool so over heating was not an issue. We have since had a family and sold the Tacoma for a 4runner and decided on a 17B based on weight and some safety margin.

I think towing a 21 in flatlands would be fine with a 4runner, but once you hit the passes you will struggle and a Tacoma will not really give you much more. Time to start looking for some more power.
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Old 03-05-2014, 03:41 PM   #63
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Last summer we drove the Ice fields highway and our 19 behind the yukon with a v8 was a decent work out. It was fine but there is a big difference in he mountians. Apart from maybe a 3/4 ton truck with a huge diesel engine on these big grades some common sense is required.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:42 PM   #64
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Last summer we drove the Ice fields highway and our 19 behind the yukon with a v8 was a decent work out. It was fine but there is a big difference in he mountians. Apart from maybe a 3/4 ton truck with a huge diesel engine on these big grades some common sense is required.
I fully agree. Most tow vehicles will get a good workout on the steeper mountain passes. Given that traveling on these long steep grades constitutes a very small percentage of my overall towing mileage, I am not overly concerned or worked up if I have to slow down a bit for short steep uphill sections of road.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:30 PM   #65
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To play devils advocate here there is something to remember though. with higher engine rpm to get all that power comes heat. So screaming a engine at high rpm to get that last bit of power can cause over heating issues. typicaly most of us are towing in the summer months when ambient temps are higher so this does need to remembered.
Production of power has the side-effect of producing waste heat, whether the engine is running at high or low speed. Roughly similar amounts of power go out the radiator, out the exhaust, and to the drive wheels; toasters are trivial heat sources compared to engines. Higher engine speed does mean more friction - and so more heat - but it also means the ability to dissipate more heat, so it isn't necessarily an issue. But still I agree - excessive speed is bad.

There is a big range between loafing along at idle speed and screaming at redline. Since the Tacoma / Grand Cherokee owner hasn't had a chance to reply to my question, we still don't know where dragging an Escape up a mountain grade at highway speed falls, so we have no idea if there is an issue for either of those vehicles (or for the 4Runner that is being compared to the Tacoma). We don't know if the Tacoma's engine is being run to the limit to extract that last bit of power, or if it's running at half that speed and only one-third of maximum power output.

For a related reference, the somewhat smaller and generation earlier V6 in our Sienna (3.3 L 3MZ-FE) drags the van and our widebody 17' trailer up those grades at engine speeds midway between relaxed cruise and redline, with no hint on the coolant temperature gauge of having any issues with excessive heat. Like Dave W, I'm not so concerned.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:00 PM   #66
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Those that are seeking information to decide on a tow vehicle would do well to consider the post of individuals such as Dave Mcrae that are providing information based on real world experience and training. Some other posts are based on assumption, presumption, opinion, guessing and information "skimed" from other sources. The resistance of the frontal area of the travel trailer is a significant factor when considering vehicle towing capability and can result in diminished towing ability of a marginal vehicle.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:07 AM   #67
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I will offer this opinion. I wouldn't want to tow anything more than a carefully loaded 19ft with any of vehicles on the market that are the 5000-6000 lb tow capacity with a v6 engine. Thats just me and were we travel with mountain passes on many of our trips.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:11 AM   #68
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I'm of the 5000 lb limit mindset with the v-6, at least from I have used.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:07 AM   #69
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I will offer this opinion. I wouldn't want to tow anything more than a carefully loaded 19ft with any of vehicles on the market that are the 5000-6000 lb tow capacity with a v6 engine. Thats just me and were we travel with mountain passes on many of our trips.
Dave
With my rather limited experience to date with a v6 4Runner and an escape 19, I would agree with you fully. No problem with ride or control, with WDH, but power is an issue in routes with significant inclines.

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Old 03-06-2014, 11:45 AM   #70
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I'm sure my Toyota FJ can handle the Escape 21' most of the time, and I plan on towing with it while in state, but heading west I'll hook up the Dodge Ram for that extra margin of power in reserve.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:36 PM   #71
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Tapping into the expertise on this thread: I am towing a 17B with a 98 4runner. The V6 produces horsepower and torque under 200. It has no apparent transmission cooler or transmission temp gauge. The owner's manual recommends towing uphill in Drive; cautions against doing it in 2nd or 1st. On steeper grades, to avoid continuous automatic shifting back and forth between 3rd and 2nd, I manually go to 2nd. This produces a steady climb at 40mph and mid-range RPM, with no apparent change in engine temp and never any warning lights. My transmission fluid looks good. My question: is this possibly doing harm that is not otherwise apparent, and would I really be better off letting it continuously shift back and forth in Drive? Thanks for any insight…Glenn.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:39 PM   #72
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Towing with a Honda Ridgeline

We towed our 17’ Casita (loaded to near 3,500 lbs) for many years with our Honda Ridgeline. The Ridgeline’s owners manual gives many towing specifications, like GVWR, GAWR, GCWR, etc, which I’ll touch on here. It also gives more specific specs I haven’t seen in other brands manuals or on-site data source.
The Ridgeline is rated for a max of 5,000 lbs towing and 600 lb tongue weight. This max is with two occupants, sitting in the front, each passenger weighing 150lbs, and each having 15 lbs of personal effects. The 15 lbs can be carried in the cabin, in the bed, or in the trunk. Any additional passengers and/or equipment will reduce the towing capacity by an equivalent amount. It also states that the GCWR is to be reduced by 2% for every 1,000 feet of elevation gain.

We traveled from Washington State to Yosemite California through the Siskiyou and Shasta area. That area delays and defeats many vehicles with its long steep grades. The Ridgeline did great with its bed, trunk, and back seat fully loaded (generator, fuel, ice chests, etc, all packed to the rim) towing the fully loaded Casita. We maintained 60mph without a problem. Even after being slowed down by the big trucks we were able to attain that 60mph. We did, however, need to keep the Ridgeline between 4,000 and 5,000 rpm to maintain that speed. A side note; I warp my brakes going down those same mountains too fast relying solely on the brakes. Lesson learned, and I hope remembered!

Last year we traveled from Washington State to Yellowstone and Mt. Rushmore. We traveled over some 11,000 foot passes which, according to Honda, would reduce the towing capacity to 3900 lbs. We were loaded as before and again did fine. The difference was that we kept the rpm below 3,500. Because of the self imposed rpm limit, we did slow to 40mph in many places, but it really didn’t bother me. My fuel consumption for the trip averaged 16mpg. The NEW and improved brakes did fine because I started each downhill slower and used the engine to help with the speed.

Now we own an Escape 21’. So far we’ve only towed it from pick-up to our home in Auburn Washington, no real hills, so I can’t report on its climbing ability. I can tell you that the 21’, seemed to be better balanced than the Casita, possibly due to the dual axel, and probably due to my loading. I didn’t use a distribution hitch with either trailer and Honda doesn’t recommend using one. The Casita would squat the Ridgeline whereas the Escape remained level. I’m going to test the new combination soon because we’re planning another trip. We’re going from Washington State, to San Francisco, up the coast to the Redwoods, inland to the Bend area, back out to the coast to the Tillamook area, up to Mt. Rainier, and over to Sequim. If my testing doesn’t give me some good vibes, I’ll have a decision to make. I love the Ridgeline because, among other things, it fits in my garage without revamping. It’s only 1.4” narrower than a ½ ton Ford but it’s a lot shorter. Another side note; I will be using a Anderson WDH, mainly for the sway control – just in case.

I don’t know if this is any help for anyone, or just taking up a lot of space, but take if for what it’s worth.
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:01 PM   #73
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Manual for my RAV4 V6 warns to not tow in lower gears for protracted time. It doesn't say what that is. It says to tow in 4, not in Drive ( which I believe is overdrive ). My Ford Explorer said the same.
Ignoring the instruction, I decided to show off going up the Coquihalla at 90 kph ( 55 mph ) and dropped down into 3 for the steepest section above the snow shed. I almost got to the top when the transmission warning light came on. I immediately placed it in 4 and let off on the gas. Had transmission fluid changed shortly after and Toyota made no comment on its condition, so I guess it looked OK.
I have tow-prep package, which includes transmission cooler.

Towing my tent trailer with the Explorer, I forgot that it said to use D, not OD when towing.
Close to destination I heard a loud clicking sound, like a pebble in a tire tread. Pulling into the campground with an even louder clicking, everybody turned to watch me coming in.
Next day I took it to mechanic who advised me that I very nearly blew up my torque converter ( about $4,000 ).
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:12 PM   #74
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Your Ridgeline will get a good workout on that trip Tom.
I'll get a chance to see how our TrailBlazer performs in a couple weeks when we take delivery, but I have been looking at 8 cylinder options .
It looks like there will be 4 or 5 21s at the Spring NOG in April - we can all compare notes then.
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:22 PM   #75
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Can't wait Paul,
Tom
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:34 PM   #76
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I am not disputing what the toyota manual says but that does seem strange. My only eperience is in the GM world. I have always been told that selecting a gear at the bottom of he hill that will keep the rpm in a good part of the torque curve and alow the truck to go up over the hill comfortably. Shifting while under load going up a big hill is not ushaully the best. I know we don't always have a choice but leaving the trans to do this itself can often lead to exsessive and un needed shifting which causes heat which is what kills automatic transmissions. I know I have the luxery of having my laptop hooked up to the truck while driving with a fully operational gm tech2 scanner so I can see whats going on. I certainly don't always have it hooked up but I have done it enough to see whats going on.
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:47 PM   #77
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I'm using 4, but if I'm slowing too much, I stomp on the gas and it downshifts itself, going back to 4 when ready. I haven't experienced a lot of searching.
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Old 03-06-2014, 03:43 PM   #78
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I also tow with a Honda Ridgleline and will be picking up my 21' on the 24th. Over 2000 miles to Texas and home. Will be interesting to see how it tows. I don't use a WDH just a sway control bar.
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:21 PM   #79
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floorpanel, I'll look forward to hearing how your trip goes back to Texas using the Ridgeline. I'll be taking mine out soon for a test run through some mountain passes around Seattle, at which time I'll report. One question, do your friends call your truck a CHICK-UP? The lab guys that I worked with named mine that because they figured only girls would drive a Ridgeline.

Paul, I may not make the spring NOG in April. My daughter is due with her first on April 25. Very rude of her isn't it?
Tom
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:53 PM   #80
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Tom, machismo seems slow to die in these parts, too. In a spirit of fun (I think), some of the full-sized pickup-driving guys in our walk-and-coffee group pass judgement on everyone's new vehicle acquisitions, with the bottom of the food chain being designated a "girlie truck".

All of these posts about pulling an Escape 21 with an SUV with 5000 pounds tow capacity are gold to those of us waiting for our trailers to hatch. Thanks, folks, and please keep 'em coming.
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