Towing an Escape 21: 4Runner or Tacoma? - Page 6 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Towing and Hitching
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-17-2014, 09:56 PM   #101
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: PNW, Washington
Trailer: No RV for now.
Posts: 171
If we got a 21' we would want to get a full sized truck; we currently have a V-8 4-Runner, but having towed a Bigfoot (17') with a 4-Runner, we would prefer a full-sized truck for the extra width of the truck, as well as for the extra towing power. It comes down to your own expectations, as Reace told you, and after Reace heard about our frustrations with towing a Bigfoot (slightly wider than a 21' Escape), he told us that if we ordered an Escape 21', we probably wouldn't be happy towing it with our 4-Runner.

Our preference is more towing capacity rather than less, for safety and less stress on the tow vehicle.
Linda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 10:02 PM   #102
Senior Member
 
Mike Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Rosa County, Florida
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 Tow: 2024 Toyota Tundra
Posts: 3,097
My 2013 Tacoma has the factory towing package. Included with this is an electronic trailer sway control, which is part of the vehicle stability system. I don't know if that affects its rated towing capacity, but it might. I'd assume a 4Runner equipped with its towing package would have something similar, but I don't know.

Mike L.
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 09:12 AM   #103
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Trailer: 2014 17B
Posts: 49
One this to think about too is where you live and what elevations you are driving at while towing. Those back east will not have much of an issue. We live at 3000ft and generally go up from there. Here is a chart for the 4runner:.

Lost HP New HP Elevation
8.1 261.9 1000
16.2 253.8 2000
24.3 245.7 3000
32.4 237.6 4000
40.5 229.5 5000
48.6 221.4 6000
56.7 213.3 7000
64.8 205.2 8000
72.9 197.1 9000
81 189 10000
smilycook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 11:59 AM   #104
Senior Member
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
Wow, any higher and you might be flying…. never realized the impact, would a supercharger alleviate the thinner air
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 12:33 PM   #105
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
In the profile of the Coquihalla in post #73, the highest road elevation is about 1300 metres, or 4300 feet, and that's a high-elevation road. Even highways which climb greatly still climb to mountain passes, not peaks, so that really low power output at 10,000 feet doesn't bother me... but the bottom half of the chart describes an effect which really does matter to many of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
... would a supercharger alleviate the thinner air
Yes.
When people say "supercharger" they usually mean one which is driven mechanically (such as by a belt) from the engine's output. One driven by an exhaust-driven turbine is a turbosupercharger... or just turbocharger for short. Turbochargers are great for compensating for increased elevation, and essentially make the engine itself unaware of the thinner atmosphere, boosting the intake pressure up and then recovering energy as they let the exhaust pressure back down. Piston engines for aircraft are typically turbocharged to keep their output up at high altitudes, not so much for more power down near sea level.

Since all modern diesel engines for vehicles are turbocharged, choosing a diesel is an easy way to get this benefit of turbocharging.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 01:01 PM   #106
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
Calgary is around 3,500 ft in elevation. I had never heard of a loss of power due to this, but now wonder the effects. A 10-12% reduction in power is not small, but then, nothing we can do about it.

Maybe I just need to use my F-350. With a towing capacity of 15,000 lbs, a few horsepower here and there really won't matter.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 02:25 PM   #107
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Calgary is around 3,500 ft in elevation...

Maybe I just need to use my F-350. With a towing capacity of 15,000 lbs, a few horsepower here and there really won't matter.
Well sure, if you don't have an F-450 handy for serious capacity(24,000 lb).

A significant point from earlier in the discussion is that rated towing capacity indicates little about performance. The F-350 may have five times the rated capacity of a typical minivan or SUV, but it weighs almost twice as much and doesn't even have twice the power. The F-450 has no more power than the F-350, to pull the much greater allowed load. The SAE J2807 standards even allow dually pickups to be slower in the testing, because they know they will be slow when loaded up. That's the same standard that says a normal tug only needs to maintain 40 mph up a 5% grade with the rated trailer.

Of course, most F-350s are now turbodiesels (although you can still get a 6.2L gas engine) and that turbo is what will keep it working despite Calgary's elevation... and that of the mountain passes.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 03:55 PM   #108
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Boise, Idaho
Trailer: 2014 17B
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
In the profile of the Coquihalla in post #73, the highest road elevation is about 1300 metres, or 4300 feet, and that's a high-elevation road. Even highways which climb greatly still climb to mountain passes, not peaks, so that really low power output at 10,000 feet doesn't bother me... but the bottom half of the chart describes an effect which really does matter to many of us.
I would not consider 4300ft to be a high elevation road A lot of the valley floors in Idaho are 5k to 6k ft with the highest paved pass being 8700ft. Once you head to Utah or Colorado things get even worse.

Teton pass going from Idaho to Wyoming tops out at 8500ft, but the grade is 10%.

A lot depends on location, but I imagine pulling a 21 over some of these passes with a 4runner would be a struggle.
smilycook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 05:11 PM   #109
Senior Member
 
techfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Longview, WA, Washington
Trailer: 2013 Escape 15B - 2014 Nissan Frontier SL
Posts: 854
Try highway 12 in Utah between Capital Reef and Bryce Canyon. 14% grade and 9,600 feet
__________________
Tim and Julie
2013 Escape 15B
2014 Nissan Frontier, Previous 2012 Santa Fe
techfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 08:08 PM   #110
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Well sure, if you don't have an F-450 handy for serious capacity(24,000 lb).
I think mine is about 22,000 lbs for a fifth wheel, the biggest difference is the F-450 has a higher gear ratio. I am sure liking the newer 6.7 litre diesel. It is WAY quieter than my old 6.3 is.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 08:15 PM   #111
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by smilycook View Post
I would not consider 4300ft to be a high elevation road A lot of the valley floors in Idaho are 5k to 6k ft with the highest paved pass being 8700ft. Once you head to Utah or Colorado things get even worse.

Teton pass going from Idaho to Wyoming tops out at 8500ft, but the grade is 10%.

A lot depends on location, but I imagine pulling a 21 over some of these passes with a 4runner would be a struggle.
Excellent info. Apparently we get away easy in the B.C. and Alberta mountains. In areas that involve those elevations, I agree it is more of an issue. One would need to accept lower performance, or select a non-boosted engine which has lots of excess power at low elevation (not necessarily excess tow rating), or select a turbo engine that is less sensitive to elevation.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 11:17 PM   #112
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 104
I'm sure lovin' mine!!!
__________________
N. Van.

2012 Escape 19'
2013 F350 crewcab 4x4
Paul S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 12:36 AM   #113
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21--FOR SALE
Posts: 411
I'm the OP of this thread which now has 110-plus postings, and the responses have been a much appreciated mother lode of towing information.

Honestly, I do have a life apart from the "which tow vehicle" question, but today I had an hour to kill and visited a Toyota dealership where the salesman I spoke with had a good awareness of the towing capabilities and characteristics of the Toyota line.

Instead of telling him I owned a 4L V6 4Runner, I just quoted Reace's 4300 pound weight estimate for a loaded Escape 21 and asked which Toyota model he would recommend to tow that trailer safely and without undue wear on the TV.

His first response was the 4Runner (music to my ears), but he went on to describe why the Tacoma with tow package would be a better choice for some owners.

He believes the Tacoma's tow rating is higher than the similarly powered and geared 4Runner's because the truck's transmission fluid cooler, engine oil cooler, and heavy duty alternator mean that challenging conditions like hot weather and steep grades would take less of a toll on the engine, transmission, and other components. There's also a technology called "Trailer Sway Control", which Toyota claims improves stability. He also believes the substantially longer wheelbase helps keep the Tacoma in charge of whatever it's towing.

His conclusion: the 4Runner is adequate to tow the Escape 21, but for those who tow a lot--especially in hotter, steeper areas like mountain passes in summer--the Tacoma is a better choice because its beefed-up, towing-specific components will add to its longevity.

Regarding whether the 4Runner or the Tacoma would win the race up the Coquihalla towing identical Escape 21s, he said it would be close, and that he couldn't predict the winner with certainty.

So our strategy remains the same: take a trip to the Rockies with our 4Runner as TV when our 21' hatches in September, reference the SUV's performance to our expectations, and upgrade our TV if necessary.
__________________
Brent and Cheryl.
Catchlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 09:10 AM   #114
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul S. View Post
I'm sure lovin' mine!!!
My F-350 is great too, but I MUCH prefer towing my 19 with my Pilot. A way better match size wise, and nicer to bomb around in when not towing too.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 09:36 AM   #115
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 104
The reason for the 1 ton is payload capacity. I have a Diamondback HD tonneau cover on it that regularly carries 3 KTM dirtbikes and 1 450 quad plus all the other stuff required for dry camping. Although even without the dirtbikes it's the most comfortable vehicle I've ever had for long distance travelling. I had an 05 Tacoma crew long box that used to tow our 17' Escape and while certainly capable it had very little torque so higher rpm's were often required. The higher passes in southern Utah and Colorado were much easier with the '11 F-150 ecoboost I bought next but nothing really compares to 800 lb.-ft. of torque that the diesel puts out.
It should be noted that most or all of the horsepower and torque figures quoted in this thread are likely manufactures numbers measured at the crank not at the rear wheels. A loss of 15% would not be unusual. More with a 4x4 truck and less with a manual 2wd vehicle.

Cheers,
__________________
N. Van.

2012 Escape 19'
2013 F350 crewcab 4x4
Paul S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 09:54 AM   #116
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
My other concern, especially on longer trips with the F-350, as compared to the Pilot, is the cost of fuel. While towing, my mileage with the truck is not much worse overall than the car, but it is not towing. And the darn cost of diesel is ridiculous at $0,20/litre more.

There has been only a couple mountain passes in my five years with the Pilot and the 19 where I slowed down a little, otherwise I have had no issue doing the speed limit, or marginally more. On some interstates I do stay below the posted 80mph limit though.

I don't often bring much extra stuff, maybe a canoe and a couple mountain bikes. There have been a few times I needed lots of tools, or was picking up something heavy, the the F-250 I used to have got put into service, and the power was greatly appreciated.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 04:55 PM   #117
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul S. View Post
It should be noted that most or all of the horsepower and torque figures quoted in this thread are likely manufactures numbers measured at the crank not at the rear wheels. A loss of 15% would not be unusual. More with a 4x4 truck and less with a manual 2wd vehicle.
Yes, all quoted numbers in this discussion and on auto manufacturers specification pages are engine output, not what is seen at the wheels. Only the motorcycle industry routinely uses at-the-wheel figures, which I believe result from manufacturers not specifying output, and then others using chassis dynos instead of the much more difficult task of hooking the engine directly to a dyno (especially since bikes usually have the transmission integrated with the engine).
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2023 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.