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Old 03-30-2016, 03:16 PM   #11
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The tongue weight for the 19 is about 400# if you get the front box, maybe a issue with squat and your capacity is around 1100, minus tongue weight gives you 3 passengers you can carry safely. Get your self a Shoreline scale to measure your tongue weight accurately - see here Robot Check
see if you can get air shocks, that will help with the squat.
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB View Post
Given jeep was never really designed for rv towing...
There are no parts in common between a JK and the Jeeps of long ago. Jeep has become a brand label, not a series of vehicles; this one model is unlike all of the other vehicles with a "Jeep" badge in almost every respect, and is very different from the original Jeep. The basic characteristics (structure, suspension, powertrain) of a JK/Wrangler have much more in common with pickup trucks and military vehicles than they do with typical modern SUVs. While the details may not have been designed for towing, the corresponding details of any common modern SUV were not, either.
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:46 PM   #13
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Escape 19' and Wrangler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Hmm.... if you look at Vermylie's posting of Frederick Simpson's work it shows 10 Escape 19 trailers with weight ranging from 3140 to 4140 lbs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
The tongue weight for the 19 is about 400# if you get the front box...
So it's probably a good thing that Dave is planning on towing an Escape 17B, not a 19. This is going to be confusing, discussing towing trailers of two significantly different sizes with the same model of tug.

The JK Wrangler Unlimited is certainly big enough (wheelbase, track, weight) to handle an Escape 19' as planned by Marry... but that doesn't mean it has all of the capabilities needed. My Toyota Sienna has the same towing ratings as the JK Wrangler Unlimited (but the Sienna has higher cargo capacity), and I have considered a 19'. Discipline in equipment choices and loading would certainly be required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marry View Post
Not on my door :-(. (Guess it is cause you can take the doors off) But the book says:
GCWR 8355 lbs, GTW 3500 lbs, Max. Trailer Tongue Wt 350 lbs
No where to find GVWR in the book but Google shows 5700 lbs, Curb Weight 4521 lbs...
There must be a placard - often on the door edge (although not in this case), usually on the driver's door frame, but sometimes in the glove compartment - showing the GVWR and other information required by federal government regulations.

The GCWR (8355 lb), minus the weight of the empty Jeep (4521 lb), and minus 3500 lb for the loaded trailer (a maxed-out 17B or perhaps the least a 19' can reasonably be planned for), leaves 334 pounds for you, your passenger(s), your cargo in the Jeep, and any optional/additional equipment in the Jeep. That just doesn't seem like enough to me (our Sienna has a higher GCWR so it is more viable).

I think the limiting - and problematic - factor in the Wrangler is the drivetrain: there isn't enough capacity of the engine and transmission to handle the work of towing more than that GCWR. There is also a concern that typical Wrangler tires are better suited to off-road and rough-road driving (plus, of course, impressing other people on the street) than controlling the vehicle - they're mushy.

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Originally Posted by Marry View Post
... we are planning on pulling our 19 to be with a Rubicon Unlimited. (at least try to). We asked the jeep dealer if he saw any problems, of course he said "no", (it's a sales person...). Then we went to the Hitch Warehouse in Red Deer for his opinion. He said it would not be a problem what so ever with a class 3 hitch and brake control.
Did either of these people ask what the loaded weight and loaded tongue weight of the trailer would be?
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
There are no parts in common between a JK and the Jeeps of long ago. Jeep has become a brand label, not a series of vehicles; this one model is unlike all of the other vehicles with a "Jeep" badge in almost every respect, and is very different from the original Jeep. The basic characteristics (structure, suspension, powertrain) of a JK/Wrangler have much more in common with pickup trucks and military vehicles than they do with typical modern SUVs. While the details may not have been designed for towing, the corresponding details of any common modern SUV were not, either.
Are we going to make it on the coquahala, or do we end up calling on b.c escape owners to come to the rescue? I guess we will find out
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
So it's probably a good thing that Dave is planning on towing an Escape 17B, not a 19. This is going to be confusing, discussing towing trailers of two significantly different sizes with the same model of tug.

The JK Wrangler Unlimited is certainly big enough (wheelbase, track, weight) to handle an Escape 19'... but that doesn't mean it has all of the capabilities needed. My Toyota Sienna has the same towing ratings as the JK Wrangler Unlimited (but the Sienna has higher cargo capacity), and I have considered a 19'. Discipline in equipment choices and loading would certainly be required.


There must be a placard - often on the door edge (although not in this case), usually on the driver's door frame, but sometimes in the glove compartment - showing the GVWR and other information required by federal government regulations.

The GCWR (8355 lb), minus the weight of the empty Jeep (4521 lb), and minus 3500 lb for the loaded trailer (a maxed-out 17B or a least a 19' can reasonably be planned for), leaves 334 pounds for you, your passenger(s), your cargo in the Jeep, and any optional/additional equipment in the Jeep. That just doesn't seem like enough to me (our Sienna has a higher GCWR so it is more viable).

I think the limiting - and problematic - factor in the Wrangler is the drivetrain: there isn't enough capacity of the engine and transmission to handle the work of towing more than that GCWR. There is also a concern that typical Wrangler tires are better suited to off-road and rough-road driving (plus, of course, impressing other people on the street) than controlling the vehicle - they're mushy.


Did either of these people ask what the loaded weight and loaded tongue weight of the trailer would be?
We showed the 19 specs to both of them
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marry View Post
Are we going to make it on the coquahala, or do we end up calling on b.c escape owners to come to the rescue?
I think that's a great example. If the rig is loaded right up to the GCWR, you may find that it is stable and comfortable, and it has enough power to climb the Coquihalla grades at a decent rate, but if you keep the accelerator pedal down and keep the engine and transmission working hard it runs too hot and so can't keep up that pace reliably.
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:06 PM   #17
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Escape 19' specs versus Wrangler

An Escape 19' has a base dry weight of 2610 pounds, a corresponding tongue weight of 256 pounds, and a GVWR of 4000 pounds. That means that the trailer can have 890 pounds of options, cargo, water, and propane added and still be at the 3500 pound limit of the Wrangler; over 10% of that addition can be on the tongue and still be at the 350 tongue weight limit of the Wrangler.

The concerns are:
  1. many Escape 19' owners add more than that 890 pounds so the total goes over 3500 pounds, and add it further forward so tongue weight goes well over 350 pounds - one would need to be careful to avoid this
  2. if 3500 pounds is a realistic actual loaded weight for a 19', there is very little capacity left in the Wrangler for passengers and cargo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Did either of these people ask what the loaded weight and loaded tongue weight of the trailer would be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marry View Post
We showed the 19 specs to both of them
Good Okay, did they explain that you would need to watch the trailer's equipment and weight, and that you would only be able to carry two people and no cargo in the Jeep? Or did they instead say to disregard the vehicle's GCWR, and explain the consequences?
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:05 PM   #18
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Our option list is without A.C., without microwave, with solar, with dual batteries, with storage box and a u-shaped dinette. Always have been light packers. It's only the two of us. Always been light packers.
The sales person's only reply was that it would tow the 19 easily, the hitch people said that with the class 3 hitch, which will distribute the weights, we wouldn't have a problem as long as we keep everything in proportions.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:19 PM   #19
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If my FJ Cruiser can tow my Escape 19, I'd like to know if the Jeep Wrangler Limited could, It would look awesome as a tow vehicle. I'm wondering if standard shift would be better than auto if there is no trans cooler or oil cooler. Any thoughts?
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:25 PM   #20
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Every towing thread always comes down to the same thing - the numbers either work or they don't. The last person I'd ask is the salesman. Calculate your numbers, paying particular attention to the GCWR. It's just math. Brian's comments are spot on.
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