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Old 04-01-2016, 11:54 AM   #41
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2012 is the last year that RAV4 came with a V6 and tow package that gave it a tow capacity of 3,500 lb. with 350 lb. tongue limit.
For 2013, the vehicle was redesigned to carry soccer balls.
I live in fear of an accident ( not my fault ) and that the insurance will write my RAV4 off. I don't want to buy another vehicle.
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:11 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by KellyM View Post
Mine can with a 2" receiver, although the manual describes it as a Class II.
That lines up with the vehicle's rating (3500 pounds), and with the reports of various owners who say that it comes with a 2" receiver. It is common for auto manufacturers to rate the hitch only to the limit of the vehicle; in this case, that is 3500 pounds, which the hitch rating standards define as Class 2. Although there are common practices in receiver box sizing, and a Class 2 hitch usually has a 1.25" square receiver box opening, the actual hitch class is not related to the box size, so there is no conflict between the Class 2 / 3500 pound rating and the 2" receiver box size.

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I hadn't heard that a Class II will not work with a WDH. I will look into that.
Because it's not true. You can only get WD equipment to work with the 2" size... but this Class 2 hitch is 2". You should only use WD equipment with hitches designed to withstand the use of WD... but neither the box size nor the hitch class ensures that it will. If you choose to use WD (I still don't know why) you may want to confirm with Jeep that the receiver is suited to WD use.

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Originally Posted by KellyM View Post
I will have some additional work to do on the Jeep before doing any real towing -- change the 4 pin to 7 pin, installing a brake controller, upgrading the braking components and perhaps installing a beefier anti-sway bar.
The connector upgrade is needed for the brakes (and to charge the trailer battery), and the brake controller is needed to run the trailer brakes: so far, so good. Now the questions:
  • What do you mean by upgrading braking components, and why would you think you need to do that?
  • People mean various very different things when they say "anti-sway bar". Do you mean that you are considering increasing the roll stiffness of the Wrangler's suspension with a thicker stabilizer bar? I would be very cautious about changing the balance between front and rear roll stiffness, especially since more stiffness at the rear may induce oversteer, which is particularly hazardous when towing.
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:19 PM   #43
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Is there a Class 2 hitch receiver with a 2" box that is designed for use with a weight distribution hitch?
Is there?
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:37 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Is there a Class 2 hitch receiver with a 2" box that is designed for use with a weight distribution hitch?
Is there?
I think so. Most of the aftermarket hitches for the Toyota Sienna are 2", some are rated only 3500 pounds, and all of the 2" units I've seen are WD-rated. More directly relevant: if Jeep says the factory-original receiver is okay with WD, then that's a Class 2 WD-capable receiver.

Just don't assume that 2" means WD-capable, or that Class 3 means WD-capable. Some are not.

I still don't understand the obsession with putting WD in a rig where it has no purpose and makes the capacity problem worse.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:45 PM   #45
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WDH is a pain to drag out to the vehicle and to hook up to trailer, and it is not an insignificant weight, but I wouldn't tow without it.
It makes the ride so much smoother and makes the tow and trailer feel like one unit.

Suggest it is worthwhile looking over etrailer.com description of hitch receivers, especially if buying after market and for WDH.

https://www.etrailer.com/faq-hitchclasses.aspx
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:53 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
WDH is a pain to drag out to the vehicle and to hook up to trailer, and it is not an insignificant weight, but I wouldn't tow without it.
It makes the ride so much smoother and makes the tow and trailer feel like one unit.
My van and 17-foot trailer don't feel disconnected, and I suspect that "one unit" and "reluctant to turn" are the same thing. More relevant to this thread, the wheelbase and weight of the tug make a big difference; the RAV4 is on the small end of tugs for even an Escape 17, so it would benefit from the desirable aspects of WD more than a Wrangler.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:54 PM   #47
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Guessing you've never ridden in the back seat of a Wrangler.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:08 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Suggest it is worthwhile looking over etrailer.com description of hitch receivers, especially if buying after market and for WDH.

https://www.etrailer.com/faq-hitchclasses.aspx
The "class" descriptions at eTrailer are "typical" practices, not definitions... and also not correct in some details.
  • They list receiver box sizes, which are the common practice but not true even of all the hitches they sell, let alone all which are made. The actual standards do not mention the use of a receiver and removable ball mount at all, let alone specify a size.
  • They list tongue weight limits, and individual hitches do have tongue weight limits, but they are not all these values. The actual standards are expressed in terms of force required to cause the hitch to fail, and do not specify tongue weight.
  • The Class III limit is actually incorrect. It conflicts with both the actual standards, as well as with the limits of aftermarket hitch products (including those sold by eTrailer). It is 5,000 pounds for Class 3, not 8,000 pounds - a substantial error.
  • The Class IV limit is also incorrect. It conflicts with both the actual standards, as well as with the limits of aftermarket hitch products (including those sold by eTrailer). It is 10,000 pounds for Class 4, not 12,000 pounds - another substantial error.
  • While some hitch manufacturers describe their highest-capacity products as "Class V", neither of the actual standards include a Class 5; it does not exist in the standards. The correct description of a hitch tested according to SAE J684 and rated over 10,000 pounds is "beyond Class 4".
  • It's not an error, but I think it's amusing that they failed to mention typical ball and ball stud sizes.

This eTrailer page doesn't provide any information (or misinformation) about the relationship of WD systems to hitch class - it doesn't mention WD at all.

It is informative to read well-intentioned (even if amateurishly researched) material such as this eTrailer page, because it can help with understanding of typical practices. If you want correct detailed information, I suggest reading actual product specifications and actual standards.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:22 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Now the questions:
  • What do you mean by upgrading braking components, and why would you think you need to do that?
  • People mean various very different things when they say "anti-sway bar". Do you mean that you are considering increasing the roll stiffness of the Wrangler's suspension with a thicker stabilizer bar? I would be very cautious about changing the balance between front and rear roll stiffness, especially since more stiffness at the rear may induce oversteer, which is particularly hazardous when towing.
The Wranglers are not known for their braking prowess. There are several quality aftermarket and OEM upgrades available that basically increase the size and quality of the rotors and pads. In addition to the extra weight on my Jeep, I have "35" tires as opposed to the "32" inch tires that come stock. For those reasons, I was intending to upgrade to the big brake kit once the current components wear out any way. If I get a trailer before then, I will just accelerate the swap.

I was talking about installing a thicker rear anti-sway bar. The stock one is pretty wimpy, and not up to the task of my add ons. I haven't decided yet, and although it is hard to imagine my Jeep over steering as currently setup, I get your point. I will think about that a little more.

Obviously, I have many competing interests in my goals, and as we all know, it is all about which compromises you are willing to make.
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Old 04-01-2016, 10:11 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyM View Post
The Wranglers are not known for their braking prowess. There are several quality aftermarket and OEM upgrades available that basically increase the size and quality of the rotors and pads. In addition to the extra weight on my Jeep, I have "35" tires as opposed to the "32" inch tires that come stock. For those reasons, I was intending to upgrade to the big brake kit once the current components wear out any way. If I get a trailer before then, I will just accelerate the swap.
That makes sense: larger to suit the larger overall tire diameter, not really for towing.

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Originally Posted by KellyM View Post
I was talking about installing a thicker rear anti-sway bar. The stock one is pretty wimpy, and not up to the task of my add ons.
Wranglers are deliberately soft in roll to allow axle articulation off-road, especially for those without the "Electronic front sway bar disconnect". Stiffer may be wise, both for a taller and more top-heavy customized configuration and for highway stability and control... but preferably stiffer at both ends.

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Obviously, I have many competing interests in my goals, and as we all know, it is all about which compromises you are willing to make.
Absolutely!
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