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11-11-2019, 06:08 PM
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#21
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Trailer: 2019 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
The pin box is a Lippert 1716; it is rated for 15,500 pounds of trailer weight and presumably a couple of tons of pin weight. The real limitation is the trailer's frame. I've never seen a specification from Escape for maximum tongue weight for any model, whether for a conventional trailer or the fifth-wheel; instead, there is a guideline as a fraction of the trailer's gross weight.
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According to the sticker in my wardrobe, the max tongue weight is 900lbs.
Also, I didn't say there was a stability problem with the 5.0 TA.
Compared to most 5th wheels, where you see a fairly consistent 20% of GVW on the pin, the 5.0TA is pretty light in pin weight. It would be my preference to have a little more on the pin, as that is how I personally would prefer my trailer loaded.
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11-11-2019, 06:56 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLModer2
According to the sticker in my wardrobe, the max tongue weight is 900lbs.
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Thanks , that's not in Escape's published specs. Presumably the "range" item on the sheet is intended to be a maximum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLModer2
Also, I didn't say there was a stability problem with the 5.0 TA.
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I can only speculate at the possible reasons for wanting more pin weight, because it was not stated. I listed two of them; there may be others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLModer2
Compared to most 5th wheels, where you see a fairly consistent 20% of GVW on the pin, the 5.0TA is pretty light in pin weight. It would be my preference to have a little more on the pin, as that is how I personally would prefer my trailer loaded.
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Yes, it is lower than many fifth-wheel travel trailers. This was discussed in more detail in an earlier thread:
Well Optioned 2nd Gen 5.0TA Pin Weight
My summary comment from that discussion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
A typical 5.0TA in operation (and a base/dry/empty 5.0TA out of the factory) runs about 15% to 17% pin weight, and that seems to be appropriate.
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15% to 17% of the gross weight of a 5.0TA loaded to its 5500 GVWR would correspond to 825 to 935 pounds of pin weight.
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11-12-2019, 08:08 AM
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#23
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Phillips, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2020 5.0 TA, 2018 F150 2.7 EB
Posts: 49
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21 v. 5.0
What an amazing community of Escape owners! Thanks for sharing all of your insights and in such detail. While this thread initially focused on the differences in towing, feel free to share any other comparisons of the two models. Most likely, this will be our final RV and would like to get it right this time. :-)
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11-12-2019, 08:13 AM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lanesboro, MN, between Whalan and Fountain, Minnesota
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ - (2018 Escape 5.0 sold)
Posts: 2,155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoonCall
Most likely, this will be our final RV and would like to get it right this time. :-)
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Enjoy,
Perry
__________________
Those who know everything use pens. Intelligent people use pencils.
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11-12-2019, 08:23 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lanesboro, MN, between Whalan and Fountain, Minnesota
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ - (2018 Escape 5.0 sold)
Posts: 2,155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
I try to store everything related to the campsite in the trailer. However, it is extremely rare to have anything in the aisle or on the floor of the dinette.
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Terry and I are like a well-oiled machine. We can have the rug, Weber grill, cooler, and chairs out of the camper in less than a minute. Doesn't bother us and we've done this many, many times.
OTOH, if we had a huge box on the back, like some here, we wouldn't need anything in the aisle either.
Enjoy,
Perry
__________________
Those who know everything use pens. Intelligent people use pencils.
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11-12-2019, 01:35 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: alpharetta, Georgia
Trailer: 2014 21' Escape
Posts: 494
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I would suggest you look at both models first and let that be a big part of your decision. If you have the right set up for a tow behind I think the safety factor is equal. What is your camping style? That should also play some in your decision.
No matter which way you go I truly believe if you want a travel trailer and Escape makes a size you like then best trailer in the industry,
Enjoy the journey,
Steve
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11-12-2019, 01:48 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: WI, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLModer2
According to the sticker in my wardrobe, the max tongue weight is 900lbs.
Also, I didn't say there was a stability problem with the 5.0 TA.
Compared to most 5th wheels, where you see a fairly consistent 20% of GVW on the pin, the 5.0TA is pretty light in pin weight. It would be my preference to have a little more on the pin, as that is how I personally would prefer my trailer loaded.
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I don't love the wording of that and can't help but speculate that is the recommended pin weight at GVW, which would be ~16% and what I thought ETI has recommended in the past.
Edit to add I see Brian pretty much already said this. My defense is it takes awhile to process the Canadian accent.
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11-12-2019, 05:31 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLModer2
According to the sticker in my wardrobe, the max tongue weight is 900lbs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS
I don't love the wording of that and can't help but speculate that is the recommended pin weight at GVW, which would be ~16% and what I thought ETI has recommended in the past.
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That does make sense.
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11-21-2019, 10:35 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Green Valley, Arizona
Trailer: 2018 5.0TA
Posts: 138
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Like real estate being about location, location, etc. Towing a fifth wheel is about safety, safety, safety. The experts will show the accident rates with bumper pulls are far higher than with 5th wheels. Capacity and convenience will never carry more weight than safety for us.
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11-21-2019, 10:51 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: North of Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 2018 -21-picked up in May 2019 / 2018 F 150 5.0
Posts: 254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM15283
Like real estate being about location, location, etc. Towing a fifth wheel is about safety, safety, safety. The experts will show the accident rates with bumper pulls are far higher than with 5th wheels. Capacity and convenience will never carry more weight than safety for us.
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I am assuming there are a lot more bumper pulls around than 5th wheel's, is that why there are more bumper pull accidents? Or are you talking percentages?
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11-21-2019, 11:26 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Green Valley, Arizona
Trailer: 2018 5.0TA
Posts: 138
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Trying to locate the statistics, but it's been a long day... Fifth wheels, under nearly all conditions don't sway. Most b.p. trailer accidents start with uncontrolled sway. My comment was strictly referencing percentages, as I agree that there are many more travel trailers on the road.
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11-22-2019, 06:10 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM15283
Trying to locate the statistics, but it's been a long day... Fifth wheels, under nearly all conditions don't sway. Most b.p. trailer accidents start with uncontrolled sway. My comment was strictly referencing percentages, as I agree that there are many more travel trailers on the road.
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and single axles are more prone......
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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11-22-2019, 08:02 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM15283
Trying to locate the statistics, but it's been a long day... Fifth wheels, under nearly all conditions don't sway. Most b.p. trailer accidents start with uncontrolled sway. My comment was strictly referencing percentages, as I agree that there are many more travel trailers on the road.
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Hi: PM15283... It's all in the way you hold your mouth. Our first Escape was a 5th. wheel and our last Escape is a 5th. wheel. Easy come... easy go!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
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11-22-2019, 10:30 AM
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#34
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Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Trailer: Airstream shopping for Escape
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
A couple of things not mentioned. IF you think you'll ever need to take tug and tow on a water ferry, expect to pay more (sometimes a LOT more) when towing a 5er. Often it's the height that's the gotcha. :
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The good news is BC Ferries stop charging for over height a while ago so one will see a per foot savings with the 5er. They do still ask about over height though but it’s simple to determine which deck they are going to put you. on.
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11-22-2019, 12:14 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiberglass Fan
The good news is BC Ferries stop charging for over height a while ago so one will see a per foot savings with the 5er. They do still ask about over height though but it’s simple to determine which deck they are going to put you. on.
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Hi: Fiberglass Fan...NY. state thruway still charges for over height. Must be something to do with damage to the ozone layer!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
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11-22-2019, 12:27 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: None, sold my 2014 5.0TA
Posts: 7,124
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The NY Thruway height charge is for anything over 7'6", think we all hit that when towing.
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
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11-22-2019, 01:30 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Olympia wa, Washington
Trailer: 5.0TA 2017
Posts: 2,255
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i like towing with a fifth wheel better then a bumper pull feels more stable. I've towed many bumper pull horse trailers and goose neck trailers. the goose necks also feel more stable. But i still wouldn't have any issue with the 21 its a nice trailer and probably hauls beautifully. 5th wheels cut in during turns so i turn a bit wider also i think they are a little harder to back at least it takes some getting used to. i have a short bed truck so when doing an extremely sharp turn when backing i have to be careful of i will hit the top of the trailer on the truck cab. i carry lots of light weight stuff in the bed of my truck when towing the 5.0 -rugs,chairs,table etc...the 5.0 can turn very tightly so that can be helpful. i think hitching up the 5.0 is easier then a bumper pull no heavy equalizer bars, i use a small light weight step ladder to reach everything and had my chains put on in reverse so they are attached to the bed make hooking them up very easy.
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11-22-2019, 03:40 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox hunt
i like towing with a fifth wheel better then a bumper pull feels more stable. I've towed many bumper pull horse trailers and goose neck trailers. the goose necks also feel more stable. But i still wouldn't have any issue with the 21 its a nice trailer and probably hauls beautifully. 5th wheels cut in during turns so i turn a bit wider also i think they are a little harder to back at least it takes some getting used to. i have a short bed truck so when doing an extremely sharp turn when backing i have to be careful of i will hit the top of the trailer on the truck cab. i carry lots of light weight stuff in the bed of my truck when towing the 5.0 -rugs,chairs,table etc...the 5.0 can turn very tightly so that can be helpful. i think hitching up the 5.0 is easier then a bumper pull no heavy equalizer bars, i use a small light weight step ladder to reach everything and had my chains put on in reverse so they are attached to the bed make hooking them up very easy.
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Hi: Fox hunt... Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
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12-18-2019, 01:26 PM
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#39
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Phillips, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2020 5.0 TA, 2018 F150 2.7 EB
Posts: 49
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Chains
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox hunt
".... had my chains put on in reverse so they are attached to the bed make hooking them up very easy.
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For those of us new to towing, can you explain where chains are attached? Thanks.
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12-18-2019, 06:54 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Naugatuck, Connecticut
Trailer: 2017 50 TA, 2016 F150, 2.7 Ecoboost
Posts: 1,056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoonCall
For those of us new to towing, can you explain where chains are attached? Thanks.
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This is how I attached mine. They hook to rings on the pin adapter.
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