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Old 11-10-2019, 08:05 AM   #1
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Towing Escape 21 v. towing Escape 5.0 TA

Forum friends,


We are considering either an Escape 21 or an Escape 5.0 TA. While we have experience towing a 20' TT, I know very little about fifth wheel towing. Insights into the comparison are welcome. We would probably be towing a 5.0 with an F150 EcoBoost. Thanks.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:29 AM   #2
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After owning 4 Escape trailers, all tow behind and all towed with Ram 1500 with either a cap or tonneau cover. I had ordered a 5.0 between #2 and #3 when at the last minute changed my mind and switched back to a pull behind. My reasons were (1) the uncertainly of which hitch to use and whether Trademasters in Chilliwack had them.(2) In addition losing the use of the truck bed was a concern. The storage in an Escape via small hatches did not lean toward a folding bike, several cg mats which sometimes get put away wet and dirty, a Blackstone grill, 4 chairs and a table. In addition I have a full sized spare in the truck bed as Ram does not provide a full sized spare. You may want to verify what Ford does. My point being the truck bed is an important accessory with an Escape and being able to cover items in the bed while stopping over night on the road is equally important. Thus I had towed trailers before an Escape and continue with pull behind because of the above reasons and the familiarity of the set up.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:57 AM   #3
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There are certainly advantages and disadvantages to both. We have always had a small fifth wheel - a 1999 model prior to our 2019 5.0TA. Originally we went with a fifth wheel for the stablity and ease of towing, as long as your truck has the payload capacity to handle the weight then it is, to me, easier than a bumper pull - no WDH or sway bars to deal with. We have towed in some ferocious winds and never felt unstable. The 5.0TA, compared to our old stick and tin fifth wheel, tows like a dream.

A big advantage for us of the fifth wheel is the shorter length - the 5.0TA is 21 feet long but because of the overlap in the bed it's roughly the same length behind your truck as a 17. We like to camp in national park, forest service and BLM campgrounds which often have small campsites and the shorter length makes it easier to fit in and maneuver on narrow campground roads.

With a bumper pull trailer you have the full truck bed available for gear. Depending on your camping style and what you like to bring along, that can be a big factor. We tend to take long trips and travel great distances, it's just the two of us and we don't bring a lot of extra chairs, rug, table, big grill etc. along. If you like to take those things it can be a challenge fitting them into the truck bed with a fifth wheel setup. A pickup bed, especially with a camper shell, gives you much more cargo space if that is a factor for you.

We have an extended cab truck with 6'4" bed. That bed size allows me to mount a big toolbox in the front of the bed for secure storage, and there is also a good bit of room around the hitch and behind it for other gear, as well as the whole back seat area.
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:09 AM   #4
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I have towed hundreds of trailers, and the 5.0TA is just about the easiest. This is not to say that the other models of Escapes are any trouble, they aren't with. With any trailer you do need to ensure you are set up correct with load distribution and other trailer towing requirements met.

While there are some towing benefits to a fifth wheel, you do lose the weather protected box while towing. Lots you can do about that though. As far as never towing a 5th wheel before, I would not sweat it, as under almost all conditions it is really no different than a bumper pull, and in things like crosswinds it shines with the hitch point in the box. Reversing, especially turning corners, takes but a wee getting used to as it has a tighter turning radius than that of the 21.

I would choose which trailer more on how well the layout works for you and your wants and needs as either will tow just fine. This is what took us to the 5.0TA over the 21 as we like the bed as out of the way as possible, but the 21 works great for many too. I would highly recommend getting a tour of both models to help you decide what you like best, they both have great benefits.

I tow with an F150 with a 6.5' bed and a 3.5L EcoBoost engine. With either it or a 2.7L EcoBoost you can easily tow any Escape just about anywhere.
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Old 11-10-2019, 10:39 AM   #5
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My only towing experience has been with our 5.0TA behind my 2016 F150 Ecoboost. The 2.7, 3:55 axle with 6.5’ bed. This truck would easily handle any Escape you wish to get. I couldn’t be happier. Never had any issues with sway or porpoising.There wasn’t much of a learning curve and after 12000 miles of towing I’m pretty comfortable with it. I think the shorter overall length is an advantage in some situations and we really like the layout of the 5.0. The hook up is I think faster and simpler than having a weight distribution type hitch. The fifth wheel set up already puts the weight where it’s supposed to go. I’ll concede that I don’t have as much storage in the back of the truck as those have a cap. But in no way does the fifth wheel take up the entire bed, especially if you go with the Anderson Ultimate which saves you weight and space and is easy to remove when you wish. I have a hard tonneau with a built in tool box which gives me a measure of security. 😎
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Old 11-10-2019, 11:06 AM   #6
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And of course, with a Fiver your tow vehicle is limited to a truck.
With a TT, an appropriate sized SUV will work just fine.
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Old 11-10-2019, 11:14 AM   #7
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I agree with others observations. I towed a bumper pull for 12 years prior to buying Ten Forward.

A couple of things not mentioned. IF you think you'll ever need to take tug and tow on a water ferry, expect to pay more (sometimes a LOT more) when towing a 5er. Often it's the height that's the gotcha.

As I've aged, I now need to use a step ladder to make certain I have a positive latch on the king pen in the truck bed and hookup the brake disconnect cable. In the beginning, I just stepped on the tire and hiked my body up. I'm 5'7" and shrinking daily. With a bumper pull, both feet stay on the ground. I carry a lightweight, 3-step ladder in the top hatch under the loft. ... if this matters to you.

AND, you don't need a really tall ladder to wash and wax the 21'

Have fun with your decision. Both the 21' and the 5.0TA are great trailers!
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:19 PM   #8
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Other then the floorplan...

The big pros for this 5th wheel to me were no more bouncing, rattles, groaning from the Weight Distribution Hitch. No more dealing with the WDH, I always removed the hitch head from the receiver after arriving in a campground. Tows better, I feel nothing other then the trailers weight on the truck starting and stopping. Shorter overall. I think the 5th is a bit quicker to connect, not that either is hard once you get used to it.

Cons: Losing the truck bed. Taller for washing and waxing. There is a learning curve for backing this in and making turns when coming from a bumper pull.

I always carried a good deal of stuff int he truck bed with a cap on it, including the bikes and a canoe. I liked keeping the bikes in the truck bed out of the weather as opposed to the rear bumper of the 5th wheel, not nearly as convenient. I carry the canoe on the truck roof now so that's no big deal. All the other stuff that went in the bed is still there, I use a tonneau cover that covers the front third of the bed. Don't know if I could do such with less then the 8' bed I have.

For the 5th wheel you need to pay attn to payload when picking a truck, the more the better.
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:34 PM   #9
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I agree with all the previous comments and will add...

As background, I have experience with towing both an Escape 19 and 5.0 with and F150 3.5L Ecoboost. They are very close to each other in hitching and towing experience.

So close in fact that while there are pros and cons for each, I agree that you should pick the floor plan you want first. Both the 21 and 5.0 have lots of storage (with or without the truck bed) so this is a minimal issue.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:08 PM   #10
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And with a TT, all of the living area is on one level.
No schlepping up and down some steps whenever you need to get in or out of bed.
Especially nice in the middle of the night when you might be a bit groggy.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:33 PM   #11
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Find myself agreeing that the priorities are floorplan and storage. Towing stability is a plus with a 5er, imho.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:37 PM   #12
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I have towed both an Escape 19' with a Tacoma and now a 5.0 TA with a Tundra 5.5' short bed. I find the 5th wheel easier to live with and more solid under tow. To be fair, if I had the power and weight of the Tundra while towing the 19' perhaps the difference would be less. But the main reason for our 5.0 choice was the layout. We love having the "bedroom" as a separate space and not having to crawl over each other in those middle of the night excursions to the bathroom.

Another consideration for us was having a larger trailer with the same over all length from bumper to bumper. With an Escape 21' the over all length of tow plus trailer would be over 40'. We live on the west side of Puget Sound from Seattle. During peak season, going over 40' on the ferry is ~$20 more each direction. The Tundra / 5.0 Combo is 38' overall.

So although I think the 5th wheel is easer to tow and more stable, I agree with others that your main consideration should be get the trailer you want because of layout, then go from there.
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
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And with a TT, all of the living area is on one level.
No schlepping up and down some steps whenever you need to get in or out of bed.
Especially nice in the middle of the night when you might be a bit groggy.
This is a valid point, something I point out when I get folks looking at the 5.0 that look like it might be an issue, but then this thread is about towing, more or less.
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Old 11-10-2019, 11:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoonCall View Post
Forum friends,


We are considering either an Escape 21 or an Escape 5.0 TA. While we have experience towing a 20' TT, I know very little about fifth wheel towing. Insights into the comparison are welcome. We would probably be towing a 5.0 with an F150 EcoBoost. Thanks.
The 5 TA is like pulling a 17 foot trailer as about 4 feet hang over the truck bed. Put a Demco Hijacker double pivot hitch in the back of my Tundra and honestly I can’t even tell I have a trailer behind me. The hitch is dead quiet. You would be surprised at what you can fit in around the hitch. My bed is 6 foot 6 and managed to get a full tool box in behind the rear window. Can’t imagine an easier trailer to pull. The fifth wheel can be a bit intimidating at first but you will soon overcome that feeling. SAFE TRAVELS
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
I agree with others observations. I towed a bumper pull for 12 years prior to buying Ten Forward.

A couple of things not mentioned. IF you think you'll ever need to take tug and tow on a water ferry, expect to pay more (sometimes a LOT more) when towing a 5er. Often it's the height that's the gotcha.

Have fun with your decision. Both the 21' and the 5.0TA are great trailers!
🤔I have not been on any ferry yet, but this past year met a couple people that had. Both where impressed with overall hitched length saying that they got charged by length.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:35 AM   #16
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Over the years we have pulled thirteen pull trailers and two 5th wheels. We currently have a 2018 Escape 5.0 TA that has been behind our F150 going on 19,000 miles. There is no need for a WDH on a 5th wheel so hookup is quicker. Having seen sway a couple of times in the past I feel some sort of sway control is mandatory on any pull type, as well as knowing how to use trailer brakes. The 5th wheel feels like it is part of the tow vehicle and have never had sway with a 5th. We really love that!

Some feel that considerable space is lost with the 5th wheel hitch in the bed, but we don't. We chose the rail mounted version of the Andersen hitch because it does take up less floor space than the gooseneck version. Notice I said floor space. This only comes into play carrying our trikes in the back. We're considering Brompton folding bikes for our winter trip in our F150 that would be no problem to haul in the back bed with the 5.0. There really is very little usable space lost with Andersen's rail mounted version and we use the space underneath the hitch for charcoal, wood blocks, loose bungees etc, so perhaps a square foot is lost at most.

We sold a beautiful topper upon purchasing the 5th wheel and really don't miss it. Many times it got in the way. I had to take the topper off a couple of times to move items that didn't fit underneath the topper. In other words there are pros and cons to toppers, but after figuring how to haul our trikes don't feel we really lost a thing. Plus, the Andersen hitch only weighs 35 lbs, and is very easy to remove. My Reese hitch was over 70 lbs and a bear to remove. Love that Andersen hitch!

We carry a lot of gear and use the interior of the 5.0 to hold much of that gear. It's easier for us to load and unload our grill that rides in front of our refrigerator, emergency cooler (filled with misc gear) that lives in the dinette area, and chairs that ride on top of the bed than trying to get anything out of the back bed. Our table fits conveniently under the second step inside the 5.0. Dirt happens, but rarely, and we stack our three plastic entry scraping rugs at the door and our 4 x 6 mat along the fridge/bathroom wall side. Terry still has no problem with room, making sandwiches when stopped at the side of the road, when traveling

We have no items in the open that can't stand rain in the bed of our truck and use two heavy duty boxes for our bike gear and other items that need to keep dry in the back bed. We also have a roll-up tonneau cover that we use when not hooked to the 5th wheel to hide our gear to help prevent theft.

Assuming you didn't buy a stripped down version of the F150, you should have no problems pulling either a 21 or a 5.0.

One major reason we chose the 5.0 is the queen bed that has a foot on each side to throw your arm/leg into when sleeping. We didn't want to sleep up against a wall like in the other Escape campers.

OTOH if we ever go to full-timing we'll buy another 25' Bigfoot pull type. Don't see that ever happening though. Both the 5.0 and the 21 are great campers. Do your homework and buy what ticks your boxes.

Enjoy,

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Old 11-11-2019, 10:44 AM   #17
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Differing opinion here as to carrying outside items inside your trailer. We stop for lunch at roadside rest areas and use free access to our trailer. I'll make a sandwich and get drinks from the refer. We stop for the night and sleep in our bed, again with access to our Escape's interior bed, dinette and bath. Chairs and grills do not come inside, perhaps a mat under the bed via the exterior hatch is the limit of carrying outside items inside. So these are some of your decisions that you need to make.
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:53 PM   #18
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I try to store everything related to the campsite in the trailer. However, it is extremely rare to have anything in the aisle or on the floor of the dinette.
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Old 11-11-2019, 03:57 PM   #19
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I'll throw in with most of the other comments. Buy the trailer based on the floorplan you require for your camping style. While this 5.0 TA is my first Escape we have had several RV's of varying configurations and styles. Over the years our camping style changed, and now the 5.0TA is a good fit.

Our Most recent RVing life as as Fulltimers-- we did so for 8 years in a 40 foot Winnebago. It was a great rig for what we did then, however when we decided to settle it became problematic because our style changed from Living in it, to using it for short trips. We now had to plan more than we wanted to, we often couldn't get to where we wanted to camp, etc. We grew tired of looking at it and not using it, and sold it. 5 years later we miss RVing, and started looking for a truck camper. Bought a truck, thinking we would find a capable camper for it. I didn't want a dually as a daily driver, so that limited us on truck campers severely. When digging into the real weights of most truck campers, we decided that we needed something a little bigger than that. That said we wanted simple, and we wanted something that was well built. We decided on the 5.0 TA, or as I call it "A Truck Camper with Wheels".

For us it really came down to one thing for Pull behind vs. 5th wheel when we started getting serious about Escape. I could turn the 5.0 MUCH tighter, and where I need to park it is a blind back behind my house. I wouldn't be able to do it with even a 17 and any normal hitch. Infact, I can't do it with the 5.0 and the Andersen put on "Forward", yes that 4 inches matters...

I do agree it pulls better than any bumper pull I have owned, and hitching is a little easier (Although with the Andersen, I do use safety chains which are a little bit of a PITA...) Also with the Andersen Ultimate, the couple I have on "backwards not only for the turning radius, but also to clear the bedrails on a tight turn. With it set that way I can't quite lower my tailgate while hitched. That kind sucks... it makes it a "get out of the truck another time" hookup process.

As far as Bed space, Yes, I contemplated a cap and bumper pull. In the end there is plenty of room in the truck bed for what I need to haul with the hitch. I have a Truxedo LowPro Tonneau cover, which works very well, and a toolbox ahead of the hitch. The Andersen is so easy to put in and take out... If I need to take it out I do. The truck came with a Gooseneck hitch (Curt Turnover), so it was a pretty easy choice. That said, I am tempted to try a Reese Goosebox, but another story...

I do wish the 5.0 had a little more pin weight. I am about 700ish lbs. The GVWR of the 5.0 is 5500 and I am at 5200 fully loaded. I'd really like to see closer to 20% (around 1000 lbs). That said I think the hitch is actually rated in the manual for 900 lbs of pin weight. They don't make that all that clear, so I'd like some clarification from ETI on that too... It pulls fine, and I am uber happy with it, but I think it could be "better" . I'd also like to see the Watertank forward of the Axles, so more water meant more pin weight.

Anyhow, like I said, Buy the camper for how you are going to use it. The 5.0 TA has a purpose, and the pro's definitely are its short wheelbase, nice ride, and easy of hookup. It is a short wheelbase, so it will be a little tougher to back as it does cut very quick. I love that I can still park in a 'Double' space in most shopping centers, and the trailer off tracks very little.

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Old 11-11-2019, 05:59 PM   #20
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If all else is unchanged, shifting the trailer's axles back to further behind the centre of mass would result in both higher pin weight and greater stability, but my understanding is that there is no stability issue with the 5.0TA. It already has a greater fraction of its weight on the hitch than the conventional trailers (such as the 21'). Greater pin weight would provide the truck with more traction, but that doesn't seem to be a common issue for owners.

The pin box is a Lippert 1716; it is rated for 15,500 pounds of trailer weight and presumably a couple of tons of pin weight. The real limitation is the trailer's frame. I've never seen a specification from Escape for maximum tongue weight for any model, whether for a conventional trailer or the fifth-wheel; instead, there is a guideline as a fraction of the trailer's gross weight.

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I'd also like to see the Watertank forward of the Axles, so more water meant more pin weight.
That's a common characteristic of all Escapes, so it is shared by the 21' and 5.0TA (and the rear body design design below roof level of these two models is identical).

Decades ago, the Trillium was designed with a frame which stepped up in the back for ground clearance at the rear, which also provided a suitable space for a fresh water tank just behind the step. Reace derived the design of the original Escape model - the 17' - from Surfside's variant of the Trillium 4500, and all subsequent Escape models have developed from that. Escape has continued both the stepped frame and rear fresh water tank location in all models, even though that tank could now be accommodated further forward (under the main floor level) without clearance issues.

The results, which are not uncommon among travel trailers of all brands, are that adding fresh water reduces tongue weight, and that as water is used and shifted to the waste tanks the weight distribution changes meaningfully. Perhaps an advantage of the 5.0TA is that, due to the more forward weight distribution and the hitch near the the tow vehicle's axle, it should be less sensitive to this shift than the 21'.
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