Towing the new 21'

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by ATHiker

Thanks for the reply. Its good to hear that the Tacoma is performing well. Have you modified the rear suspension or added air bags to your Tacoma? Which weight distribution hitch are you using?

I have not modified the suspension, but since it's a 4x4 it's probably beefed up a little anyway over the 4x2 model. I'll count the leaves on the rear springs when it isn't raining.

I have the Curt hitch, which I purchased at home in Florida, mainly because that's what the shop I use carries. It cost around $250, I think. When I asked if the Anderson was better, I was told that every hitch had to perform as specified, or the manufacturer would get sued. Made sense to me. I carried the Curt hitch with me to Chilliwack and ETI installed and adjusted it for me, but they charged me a set-up fee. I think the fee was for setting up the hitch, but I'm not sure. There was too much going on at the time.

And regarding towing capacity: I read the fine manual, and I stand corrected. I have the access cab model, code GRN245L-CRADKA, with the towing package, and its rating is 6500 pounds, not 7500 as I had thought.

Mike Lewis

[ATHiker]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

I have not modified the suspension, but since it's a 4x4 it's probably beefed up a little anyway over the 4x2 model. I'll count the leaves on the rear springs when it isn't raining.

I have the Curt hitch, which I purchased at home in Florida, mainly because that's what the shop I use carries. It cost around $250, I think. When I asked if the Anderson was better, I was told that every hitch had to perform as specified, or the manufacturer would get sued. Made sense to me. I carried the Curt hitch with me to Chilliwack and ETI installed and adjusted it for me, but they charged me a set-up fee. I think the fee was for setting up the hitch, but I'm not sure. There was too much going on at the time.

And regarding towing capacity: I read the fine manual, and I stand corrected. I have the access cab model, code GRN245L-CRADKA, with the towing package, and its rating is 6500 pounds, not 7500 as I had thought.

Mike Lewis

Mike, thanks for the reply. This helps a lot.

Tom

[mitsui]

Originally Posted by ATHiker

Thanks. I think I feel better about the Tacoma and the E21. Will look for your feedback from the trip to Michigan.

Hi Tom, I saved the following link for a Timbren kit which someone on the forum recommended at one time for the Tacoma.

Timbren Kits, Timbren Suspension Kits, Timbren Load Booster, Timbren Overload Springs, Timbrens - TruckSpring.com

Jim

[ATHiker]

Originally Posted by mitsui

Hi Tom, I saved the following link for a Timbren kit which someone on the forum recommended at one time for the Tacoma.

Timbren Kits, Timbren Suspension Kits, Timbren Load Booster, Timbren Overload Springs, Timbrens - TruckSpring.com

Jim

Jim, thanks for the tip.

Tom

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

When I asked if the Anderson was better, I was told that every hitch had to perform as specified, or the manufacturer would get sued.

Okay, but with no specification of performance provided other than a weight capacity (which implies a breaking strength), those products can do - or not do - just about anything without incurring any risk of failure to perform as specified.

[Mike Lewis]

I seem to remember that the Curt hitch I have is rated for an 8000 pound trailer. Once again, I'm not certain since I don't have the docs in front of me, but that is what I remember.

Mike Lewis

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

I seem to remember that the Curt hitch I have is rated for an 8000 pound trailer.

I'll buy that - it's the weight of trailer the hitch can take without breaking, likely according to the SAE J684 standard. It's the only spec, so everything about load transfer (or "weight distribution") and sway control is hand-waving and marketing fluff, with no specs to back it up. The products work, but there is no promise of specifically how well they work, so there is no risk of failing to meet the non-existent specifications.

[abby]

Originally Posted by mitsui

Hi Tom, I saved the following link for a Timbren kit which someone on the forum recommended at one time for the Tacoma.

Timbren Kits, Timbren Suspension Kits, Timbren Load Booster, Timbren Overload Springs, Timbrens - TruckSpring.com

Jim

What factors would indicate whether a Timbren (or other brand) kit or air bags would be the better choice to address rear-end sag? And how much sag is too much? cpaharley said that he had a 1-inch sag with his Ram while towing the 21 but wasn't concerned about it. When to worry? And would the answer depend on the vehicle and trailer combination? Can other actions safely mitigate sag w/o lightening the hitch weight too much? TIA.

[cpaharley2008]

To me, if after hooking up the trailer, there is minimal change in suspension height, and the trailer is level, then you will be fine, as long as it tows well. If you have some sway while towing afterwards and need to redistribute weight forward and this causes some sag, then a decision will need to be made as to how to alleviate such.

[abby]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

To me, if after hooking up the trailer, there is minimal change in suspension height, and the trailer is level, then you will be fine, as long as it tows well. If you have some sway while towing afterwards and need to redistribute weight forward and this causes some sag, then a decision will need to be made as to how to alleviate such.

Thanks Jim. That answers the when-to-worry portion of the Q. What about the preferred means to alleviate and why?

[cpaharley2008]

If your tongue weight does cause rear end sag, then an Andersen w/d witch would be the answer, not only does it shift weight forward, it also alleviates sway.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by abby

What factors would indicate whether a Timbren (or other brand) kit or air bags would be the better choice to address rear-end sag? And how much sag is too much? cpaharley said that he had a 1-inch sag with his Ram while towing the 21 but wasn't concerned about it. When to worry? And would the answer depend on the vehicle and trailer combination? Can other actions safely mitigate sag w/o lightening the hitch weight too much? TIA.

If the trailer hitch weight causes significant unloading of weight from your front axle on the tow vehicle (and you will often be able to determine this from the feel of your vehicle while driving), then a Weight Distribution Hitch may be an appropriate solution. If the trailer hitch weight causes sag of the rear end of your tow vehicle with no significant unloading of weight from the front axle, then air bags or otherwise beefed up rear suspension may be an appropriate solution.

[nealmccarter]

Originally Posted by abby

What factors would indicate whether a Timbren (or other brand) kit or air bags would be the better choice to address rear-end sag? And how much sag is too much? cpaharley said that he had a 1-inch sag with his Ram while towing the 21 but wasn't concerned about it. When to worry? And would the answer depend on the vehicle and trailer combination? Can other actions safely mitigate sag w/o lightening the hitch weight too much? TIA.

I went with airbags on my Sienna but was disappointed with air leakage and tubes disconnecting. Had a set of Timbren Rubber Springs installed and voila, no more problems and rear end sagging alleviated. Because the Sienna has coil springs, they are not easily installed. Glad had the RV guy do it.

[padlin]

My old Ford Ranger was rated for just under 6000 lbs towing and 1300 lbs payload. When loaded up the hitch weight was 600. Hooked up with a 600 lb Equalizer WDH I could not get the rear end to come up any where near level, even cranking down the WDH as much as it would go. Rear Air-Lifts brought up the rear of the truck to be level with the front. Can't say it rode better after as it wasn't bad before the lifts, but it looked better and there was less chance of bottoming out the leaf springs or the hitch shank. I kept the air pressure somewhere around 5lbs unless I was going to tow. The trailer is 3550 lbs loaded.

[fudge_brownie]

Here is the method I use to measure drop with the vehicle empty and parked level and then with the trailer hooked and the vehicle as close to travel weight as possible, I try to include passengers but I found it hard to do the measurements while seated in the drivers seat.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by nealmccarter

I went with airbags on my Sienna but was disappointed with air leakage and tubes disconnecting.

I'm guessing that was with Firestone Coil-Rite bags, like I have. They use a convenient push-in hose connection, which seals with an o-ring. Air-Lift 1000 bags are similar, but their fittings a screw-in, which is less convenient but probably more secure.

Originally Posted by nealmccarter

Because the Sienna has coil springs, they are not easily installed.

The installation with coils is certainly easier than with leaf springs, since the bags are just stuffed into the coil while the leaf-spring setup requires the installation of top and bottom brackets. Some people have struggled to get the bags into coils, other have found it trivial; it took me a few minutes to get the bags themselves into my Sienna, just following the instructions.

I'm glad I didn't let any "RV tech" touch my van, and I doubt the truck accessory place that sold the air bags to me would be particularly trustworthy. I'm always suspicious of the competence of automotive service companies, based on my experience.

In the case of any air suspension, of course, there is also the installation of air lines and fill fittings, in addition to the bags themselves.

[Mike Lewis]

Once again I posted bad information. Here is the correct info on my hitch:

Curt Round Bar Weight Distribution Hitch
Model 17001
10,000 lb. gross trailer weight
800 lb. tongue weight

Mike Lewis

[abby]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

If your tongue weight does cause rear end sag, then an Andersen w/d witch would be the answer, not only does it shift weight forward, it also alleviates sway.

Thanks Jim.

[abby]

Originally Posted by ice-breaker

If the trailer hitch weight causes significant unloading of weight from your front axle on the tow vehicle (and you will often be able to determine this from the feel of your vehicle while driving), then a Weight Distribution Hitch may be an appropriate solution. If the trailer hitch weight causes sag of the rear end of your tow vehicle with no significant unloading of weight from the front axle, then air bags or otherwise beefed up rear suspension may be an appropriate solution.

Thanks Dave. Makes sense.

[abby]

Originally Posted by nealmccarter

I went with airbags on my Sienna but was disappointed with air leakage and tubes disconnecting. Had a set of Timbren Rubber Springs installed and voila, no more problems and rear end sagging alleviated. Because the Sienna has coil springs, they are not easily installed. Glad had the RV guy do it.

Didn't think about air leakage. Important point. Thanks Neal.