Towing vehicle for 19' Escape

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

All true, but a "proper frame" (body on frame vs unibody) does not necessarily translate to a better tow. Just perusing the anecdotal evidence on many forums, some people prefer the Highlander to the 4Runner for light to medium towing.

I get the impression they mostly prefer the Highlander as a daily driver, as it is, after all, a car at its heart, and not a truck.

for a light trailer this probably doesn't matter as much, but towing puts a lot more stress on a vehicle. The suspension and drive train on a FWD/AWD car-derived SUV has a lot more moving parts which are subjected to this stress, the old fashion live rear axle with frame on leaf springs design of a conventional truck is just plain much more rugged than transverse engine FWD with dual CV joints on each wheel, all the steering bits subjected to the towing forces, etc.

[padlin]

Originally Posted by disneydoc

We have been driving Toyotas for a long time, and was a little disappointed coming from Toyota.

We've had Toyotas for a long time too. Do you recall, no pun intended, when in about 2009 that admitted that their QC was not doing the job and they had many quality problems? It was a let down when I heard that, owning a new 2009 at the time.

That said I have just under 130k on it, yes it had it's fair share of recalls, but it's never had a problem that I had to really deal with.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

The suspension and drive train on a FWD/AWD car-derived SUV has a lot more moving parts which are subjected to this stress, the old fashion live rear axle with frame on leaf springs design of a conventional truck is just plain much more rugged than transverse engine FWD with dual CV joints on each wheel, all the steering bits subjected to the towing forces, etc.

Sure, but all of the light-duty pickups (Ford F-150, GM 1500, Ram 1500) pickups hailed as "real trucks" or "real towing machines" have the same complexity in their front suspensions and front drive axles (including the CV joints). The rear suspension gets heavily loaded when towing, but has anyone ever had a rear suspension failure in a modern vehicle? I haven't, and can't think of anyone I know who has. The suspension problems that I've heard of from friends (including mechanics) are with the front of North American pickup trucks.

Here's one to consider: the U.S. HMMWV (commonly called the HumVee and sold to civilians as the Hummer H1) has four-wheel independent suspension by double wishbones, and some much heavier U.S. military trucks have commonly had independent suspension (for all axles) for many years. They seem to be pretty rugged.

[rbryan4]

I agree that a truck is more "rugged", but you'll likely not benefit from that ruggedness unless you offroad or something like that. And as Brian points out, the front suspension components on my "real truck" aren't really any different than those on a unibody Crossover/SUV - and they're not the components that are loaded when towing anyway.

There are some really capable unibody SUVs that do a fine job towing an Escape, and do so reliably. I just prefer the larger vehicle, much roomier cab, bed storage and the extra towing margin I get with my truck. And dare I say, it's a real pleasure to effortlessly pass all those stacked up semis going uphill on a steep grade.

[John in Santa Cruz]

a 4x4 truck isn't pulling the trailer with its front suspension, you only use that sort of 4x4 in heavy snow, or off road in the dirt. 90% of the time, the truck is in 2x4, and pulling with its back wheels, that don't turn sideways. in a transverse engine FWD vehicle, the torque applied to the road goes into the mcpherson strut and steering ball joint.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

in a transverse engine FWD vehicle, the torque applied to the road goes into the mcpherson strut and steering ball joint.

The torque doesn't but the drive force does. I don't see a problem with this, since it works reliably for vehicles with substantial mass. Of course, suitable components are required.

Also, whether the engine is transverse or longitudinal makes no difference to the forces on the suspension - there have been (and continue to be) front-wheel-drive vehicles of both engine orientations. Transverse engine configurations are more likely to have strut suspensions (because they leave more room for engine width) but some transverse have double-A-arm, some longitudinal have struts, and strut and double-A-arm suspensions have the same lower ball joint and steering considerations.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

a 4x4 truck isn't pulling the trailer with its front suspension, you only use that sort of 4x4 in heavy snow, or off road in the dirt. 90% of the time, the truck is in 2x4, and pulling with its back wheels, that don't turn sideways.

True. I enjoy considering the consequences of design decisions, but I just don't see a reason to worry about something which has proven to not be a problem.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

All true, but a "proper frame" (body on frame vs unibody) does not necessarily translate to a better tow. Just perusing the anecdotal evidence on many forums, some people prefer the Highlander to the 4Runner for light to medium towing.

Do you consider a 4000#+ trailer light to medium?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Do you consider a 4000#+ trailer light to medium?

Sure, considering how heavy most trailers are.

[Rossue]

From Camper Report.com:

"In general, a truck or other vehicle that advertises it can tow 7,200 pounds (3,250 kilos) is adequate for towing most trailers under 24 feet."

The average trailer weighs 5200# dry. The "light-medium" moniker seems a misnomer. Couldnt find a definition for it.

[rbryan4]

Well, Escapes are on the lighter side, as RVs go. Of course they're not a Scamp 13 or a Boler, but still relatively light for their size - even the 21. I wasn't trying to "define" it Ross - just a generalized statement.

[Rossue]

I think a lot of newbies get confused and from my experience with a 17 & 21 Escape I would say a 17 is at the upper end of a light trailer. Gen2 19 & 21 Escapes are pushing more towards average weights. A little less perhaps, yet not light by any definition and medium is more of a description of average.

[Fox hunt]

Anyway many tow a 17B, 19, and a 21 very successfully with a Highlander. I had a 17B and towed with one it was very easy my highlander was set up to tow and was rated to tow 5000 pds. Depends on the year/tow rating of the Highlander. i loved it because it was a nice driving car when i wasn't towing.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

From Camper Report.com:

"In general, a truck or other vehicle that advertises it can tow 7,200 pounds (3,250 kilos) is adequate for towing most trailers under 24 feet."

The average trailer weighs 5200# dry. The "light-medium" moniker seems a misnomer. Couldnt find a definition for it.

This is presumably from Average Camper Weight (with 13 examples)

Equipped, loaded, and wet, that 5,200 pound dry average turns into 6,700 pounds according to their rule of thumb. Dry or wet, that puts every Escape well under the average, so "light to medium" for the Escape range sounds reasonable to me.

The article has lots of other information, and a generous helping of misinformation.

[Parker]

We just completed an awesome 6,000+ mile trip to Newfoundland and back with our 2008 Highlander AWD pulling our 19. Being 10 years old and with 170K miles on it, maybe it's not all that interesting here, but I have some numbers to share anyway. We're considering another tow vehicle, and I wanted to see how close we are to the limits of the Highlander. The Highlander has served us well, towing our Escape 38K miles and a Casita before that, but it has required a very expensive Toyota-rebuilt transmission replacement, and I feel like it works pretty hard towing up long rolling hills, which knocks the mileage down to around 13 mpg, sometimes less. It's pulled the Escape through the Eisenhower Tunnel twice, which is quite a pull to 11,000 feet, so it's a very capable car if one doesn't mind it working so hard. Today, my wife and I drove the whole rig, still packed from our trip, to the scales. It turns out the Escape weighs 3720#, loaded. Hitch weight is 440#. Rear axle load on the Highlander is 3100# (3505 max allowed) and front axle load is 2060 # (2955 max allowed). We're using an Equalizer Hitch, by the way. It was reassuring to see that all the weights fall within acceptable limits. Still, I think there is a Tundra or F-150 in our future just to have a few more ponies under the hood and hopefully a more comfortable ride while towing.

[lunkerking]

We have just purchased a 2018 Highlander and are considering getting an Escape. We did not purchase the hitch installed from the Toyota dealer as we were told there is not a towing package. So we plan to get a hitch intstalled from uhaul for a price of $400 in lieu of getting it done by the Toyota dealer for around $1200. Is this a bad choice? What are we losing out on by having uhaul put the hitch in? Thank you.

[gbaglo]

You're on the right track, but I would go to a hitch shop rather than U-Haul, given my buddy's experience with them and other U-Haul stories posted here.
I paid $650 for a class III hitch receiver for WDH and installation of brake controller and 7-pin wiring by a reputable hitch shop. Hitch receiver alone was $950 from Toyota and was only class II.
You should have been able to get the tow prep package from Toyota, which provides extra transmission cooling etc. If you didn't, I'd take that up with the dealer.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by lunkerking

We have just purchased a 2018 Highlander and are considering getting an Escape. We did not purchase the hitch installed from the Toyota dealer as we were told there is not a towing package. So we plan to get a hitch intstalled from uhaul for a price of $400 in lieu of getting it done by the Toyota dealer for around $1200

The online build-and-price tool shows various accessory choices, including a hitch receiver only (for US$470), and a hitch receiver and wiring harness (with light circuit converter, but apparently only 4-pin; for US$699). If the vehicle has already been built, the dealer can bring these in as parts and install them. What is the dealer offering for $1200?

Originally Posted by lunkerking

Is this a bad choice? What are we losing out on by having uhaul put the hitch in?

The available aftermarket hitches will generally be placed under the bottom of the bumper cover (or "fascia"), while the Toyota optional/accessory hitch pokes through the bumper cover. This makes the Toyota hitch receiver look better, leave better rear ground clearance, and perhaps better match the height of the trailer tongue (minimizing the rise or drop of ball mounts or WD hitch heads); however, it can protrude a bit.

U-Haul sells Curt part #13200 as with U-Haul part #78595, with U-Haul labels, so you can see it on retail sites such as eTrailer. It's currently worth under US$200 (not installed).

I don't know how the Toyota accessory hitch receiver is attached, but the aftermarket receivers appear to bolt into six points designed for that purpose by Toyota, so I don't have any structural concern with either. Whether the way the Toyota receiver packages behind the bumper fascia is worth the cost premium is the buyer's call.

[John in Santa Cruz]

if that 2018 Highlander has an automatic, be sure to have a shop install a larger transmission cooler. this is normally part of a factory tow option.

if that Highlander has a CVT transmission, find another vehicle that doesn't unless you don't mind the possibility of the transmission cratering within 100k miles.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

if that 2018 Highlander has an automatic, be sure to have a shop install a larger transmission cooler. this is normally part of a factory tow option.

I would say that if you don't have the factory towing preparation (which the owner's manual says is required for over 2,000 pounds of trailer), then trade the vehicle for one which is properly equipped. In some Toyota models - including the Sienna with the same engine - the towing preparation includes a larger radiator and an engine oil cooler, not a larger transmission cooler because all automatics have a cooler and these models include a large enough cooler for towing. That engine oil cooler (on the Sienna's 2GR-FE engine, same engine as the 2013-2015 Highlander and nearly identical to the 2GR-FXE in the current Highlander) is so expensive to retrofit that it is not economically viable. Just tacking on whatever the hitch shop wants to sell you will not likely result in a properly equipped vehicle, although with enough research you find could find out what to add and whether it is practical.

In the online specs at Toyota.com for the 2018 Highlander, there is only one towing capacity listed for each combination of grade (LE, LE Plus, XLE, SE, Limited) and trim (generally just FWD or AWD). That means the preparation for higher towing capacity is not offered as a separately purchased package. There is a description of either

Heavy-duty radiator with engine oil cooler, 200-watt fan coupling, supplemental transmission oil cooler and 150-amp alternator

or

Heavy-duty radiator with engine oil cooler, 240-watt fan coupling and supplemental transmission oil cooler

... which appears for variants with the 5,000 pound towing capacity and not for variants with lower capacity (which generally means the 4-cylinder).
This suggests that there is additional transmission cooling, but that adding a transmission cooler would be far short of sufficient to support the higher towing capacity in a vehicle which was not properly equipped from the factory.

The good news is that it looks like the current build-and-price tool offers only 5,000 pound towing preparation for all V6 Highlanders, even if the factory is capable of building lower-capacity V6 vehicles. So, if you just bought a Highlander and didn't get the FWD 4-cylinder LE, you're presumably equipped for 5,000 pounds.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

if that Highlander has a CVT transmission, find another vehicle that doesn't unless you don't mind the possibility of the transmission cratering within 100k miles.

No Highlander has a CVT. Unlike Subaru and Nissan, Toyota isn't big fan of CVTs, putting them in only one common model (although that is the very high production Corolla). The hybrid transmission design used by Toyota is sometimes called a "eCVT" (presumably for "electric CVT"), but it's not... and relevant to this discussion, it is not a traction drive and the Highlander Hybrid does not have sufficient towing capacity for a typical Escape 19'. The issue with CVTs is that they depend on traction (friction) between components to transmit drive force, so they are sensitive to overloading and fluid type and quality issues (causing slippage).

[Parker]

Brian, will you help us go car shopping?