towing with a 07 Sequoia

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

Went to Toyota the 07 does not have tow pachage

Sorry to hear that... I was hoping for the easy way out.

Originally Posted by jennykatz

went to hitch place that put on my class4 and 7 pin and they said you have only 5 wires connected

Since it only takes 4 wires to run the lights, I was puzzled at first... but the fifth wire would be for the reverse lights for your Snoozy's disk surge brake lockout. That means

• no battery charge line
• no brake controller wiring (to controller, or from controller to trailer)
• ground connection adequate for lights but possibly not sufficient for charging and brake current.

Originally Posted by jennykatz

they said a prodigy RF preportional trailer mounted braking system. $400 plus. Running 1 wire from battery under car to 7 pin they said that should do it The trailer would not be able to charge batteries with this system. Im having solar put on so that shouldn't be a problem.

That one wire would be the trailer battery charge line, which is needed by the Prodigy RF controller (see previous post)... but then why would they say that the trailer battery would not charge? The Prodigy RF intercept the cable to the trailer and uses the charge line, but I didn't think it kept power from going to the trailer except perhaps while the brakes are being applied - I haven't re-read the Prodigy RF manual to check.

Although fully wiring up a brake controller in the tug is much more work than just running a charge line, the total cost of a normal Prodigy and wiring is probably not much different from the cost of a Prodigy RF (and I suggest that you would do the charge line either way).

Originally Posted by jennykatz

Anyone out there with same problem

Tow vehicles without any wiring from the factory for the brake controller or trailer battery charging are very common, although most recent pickup trucks, SUVs sharing a platform with a pickup truck (like the Sequoia), and SUVs with high tow ratings (over 3500 pounds) do have this wiring. Adding brake controller and charge wiring can be annoying to do (I hate poking into interior panels and contorting myself to get under the dash), but it is commonly done as a do-it-yourself job (I wired my Sienna) and as a hitch shop service.

[jennykatz]

The crazy thing is there is a fuse and relay box just for trailering on the Sequoia So I thought for sure that it was the real deal with wiring but was told no energy was there maybe change fuses ?
So If I run 2 wires from battery with fuses (30) back to 7 way then open up 7way and insert into 7way or just buy a new 7way with 7 wires coming out ??
Would these wires be 12 gauge ?
Then just hook up reg prodigy p2 or p3 to it ?

So even if I get the RF prodigy I still have to run a charge wire anyway right ?

Thanks guys Jim

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

...Anyone out there with same problem

I have used the Tekonsha Prodigy RF controller with my Escape 19' and Toyota FJ Cruiser combination since April 2013 with no problems whatsoever. Did require installation of a charge wire from the FJ battery to the 7-pin. My FJ was not pre-wired for a plug and play installation of a brake controller, and I got a pretty good deal online on the Prodigy RF, so this system has worked out to be slightly cheaper than having a conventional controller installed. I would not hesitate to use this controller again on another vehicle.

[Rossue]

We had the RF with a Murano and 17B combo because the Nissan wiring was too risky to splice into. Hard to believe a Sequoia would be similar, but at would at least get a second opinion. The RF worked great, however having to plug in to a 12V receptacle rather than it being mounted isn't my preference and the P3 we've been using for two years with Yukon/21 is compact and has more features for diagnostics. You don't need a hitch shop to do this; might get a quote from a good independent mechanic.

[jennykatz]

So let me get this straight I buy the prodigy RF 90250 and then run a wire (10ga)
to the 7 pin in the back of vehicle and attach it to the nuber 2 Elec brake or number 4 battery charge that is where i'm confused ?

My 7 pin is as follows
1-bottom left is common ground
2-bottom right electric brake not there ?
3-top left tail and license
4-top right battery charge not there ?
5-middle left left stop and brake
6-middle right right stop and brake
7-center aux for trailer brakes on a surge brake 5pin adapter this works to close off solenoid on boat trailer disc brakes
Thanks for all the reply's I'm hoping to send this prodigy out to ETI and get the install done out there to the trailer and then pick up trailer in Goshen, Indiana

Anyway I wish ETI would just install disc surge brakes so so so much easier and they stop a lot better then elec drum brakes One of the trailer mags did a comparison and what a difference it makes Jim

[jennykatz]

From re-reading the posts I see I run a number 10ga wire from battery to the number 4 slot in 7 wire pin is that correct ? I hope so would running the wire under the car be OK if wire was heavy duty wire Thanks again for all the responses Jim

[7th Heaven]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The Prodigy RF is basically a regular Prodigy (the most common full-featured proportional brake controller), but located on the trailer instead of in the tug. Like any proportional controller, it needs:

• to know when you are pushing the brake pedal
  • a normally installed controller is connected the brake light switch at the brake pedal
  • the Prodigy RF just connects to the brake/turn signals to the trailer instead
• to measure how hard you're braking, which it does with an accelerometer
  • this doesn't need any connection to the vehicle
• to get power
  • a normal controller is wired to the tug's battery
  • a Prodigy RF get power from the battery charge line of the tow vehicle's towing socket
• to send current to the trailer brakes
  • a normal controller is wired to the brake pin of the 7-pin connector
  • the Prodigy RF is plugged into the tow vehicle's socket and the trailer's cord is plugged into it, so the controller can send current to the trailer brakes on the same wire as the trailer would normally get it
• a display and control buttons for adjustments
  • these are directly on a normal controller
  • with a Prodigy RF they are on a unit which plugs into the lighter socket for power and communicates with the controller by radio - thus the "RF" name - which doesn't need to be held in a constant orientation and so doesn't need permanent mounting

This certainly works, and doesn't require any permanent installation in the tow vehicle (just plug the remote control unit into the lighter socket). A good reason to pick this is a desire to use different tow vehicles, especially rented or borrowed vehicles which you can't wire for a controller.

No controller needs adjustment in normal operation, except when the trailer is changed (to a different trailer, or the load on the the trailer is significantly changed). So a normal proportional controller and a Prodigy RF and similarly "set and forget".

Many people are concerned by the radio connection aspect of this system, not trusting it to control the trailer brakes. The radio connection isn't involved at all in normal braking; it is required only to change settings, or to manually apply the trailer brakes.

A significant point is that the tow vehicle still needs a 7-pin towing receptacle with power wired to the trailer battery charge pin. I suspect that there are few vehicles which are wired with a 7-pin and charge power that don't also have brake controller wiring, so I think that almost entirely kills the appeal of the Prodigy RF.

I wouldn't use a Prodigy RF in this case, where the same tug and trailer are always used together and a normal wired-in installation is not difficult to do.

We have the RF installed and it has worked well for us. We also have multiple Tugs ( a volvo XC90 and a Toyota Sequoia) having the RF mounted on the trailer means we never have to buy controllers for each tug.

[jennykatz]

Thanks that explains it .So just run a 10ga wire from battery with a 20amp fuse and attach to the number 4 battery charge 7pin connection .and go buy the prodigy RF from who Amazon or E-bay ? Do you get warranty if buying from these web based stores ? Jim

BTW How does your 21 do with the Sequoia pulling the trailer what kind of mpg can you get ?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by 7th Heaven

We have the RF installed and it has worked well for us. We also have multiple Tugs ( a volvo XC90 and a Toyota Sequoia) having the RF mounted on the trailer means we never have to buy controllers for each tug.

There is no need to buy controllers for each tug even with a controller wired to the tug. With a conventionally wired controller, you just unplug the controller and move it to whatever vehicle is towing a trailer... just as you move the remote control unit of a Prodigy RF. The wiring needs to be done for each tow vehicle, but the controller can go where ever it is needed. Many people remove the controller from the vehicle (or at least from the dash - I stash mine in a storage bin in the back) when not towing.

The only controllers which can't move readily from vehicle to vehicle are those which are built into the dash and integrated with the tow vehicle's systems, either installed at the factory or retrofitted. That's not an available option for a 2007 Sequoia (or for the majority of vehicles which can tow).

The Prodigy RF is certainly a valid option for the multi-tug family, but it's not necessary.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

... I hope so would running the wire under the car be OK if wire was heavy duty wire...

I hate fighting with interior panels, and didn't want to run wire though a hole in the body in the rear, so all of the wires which I installed to my 7-pin connector (charge, brake output, ground) run under the vehicle from the engine compartment. No problems in the decade so far and I didn't even cover them with anything... but I did route them carefully.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

So let me get this straight I buy the prodigy RF 90250 and then run a wire (10ga)
to the 7 pin in the back of vehicle and attach it to the nuber 2 Elec brake or number 4 battery charge that is where i'm confused ?

For the Prodigy RF, you are supplying power to the battery charge line (pin 4 of an RV 7-way connector, conventionally a black wire). The electric brake connection (pin 2 of an RV 7-way connector, conventionally a blue wire) is only for the output of a controller to the brakes, so would not be used on the Sequoia with a Prodigy RF.

Originally Posted by jennykatz

My 7 pin is as follows
1-bottom left is common ground [white]
2-bottom right electric brake not there ? [blue]
3-top left tail and license [green]
4-top right battery charge not there ? [black]
5-middle left left stop and brake [red]
6-middle right right stop and brake [brown]
7-center aux for trailer brakes on a surge brake 5pin adapter this works to close off solenoid on boat trailer disc brakes [yellow]

Yes, that's normal RV 7-way wiring. I've added the conventional wire insulation colours in square brackets.
The centre pin is auxiliary: it can be used for anything you want, and this is the correct pin to use for the reverse light circuit used for the surge brake backing control.

Pin 4 (currently unused) is for battery charge: needed for the Prodigy RF, desirable regardless of brake controller to charge the trailer battery while towing. This would normally be a 10 gauge wire.
Pin 2 (currently unused) is for the output of a trailer brake controller: not used (on the tug) by the Prodigy RF, required to be connected to the output of a brake controller wired into the tow vehicle. This would normally be a 12 gauge wire.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

Thanks for all the reply's I'm hoping to send this prodigy out to ETI and get the install done out there to the trailer and then pick up trailer in Goshen, Indiana

I would not assume that Escape Trailer Industries will install a Prodigy RF, but if they won't - and if you decide to go with the RF approach - there are solutions:

• Escape might send the trailer out to Trademasters (the hitch shop they work with) for installation, or
• you could just install the Prodigy RF at pickup: electrically it's just a plug-in, and physical mounting of the box is not complicated.

[jennykatz]

I just talked to Tammy she said it wouldn't be a problem . So I ordered from Amazon with the adapter for checking wires . So run a 10 ga wire under the SUV and attach to number 4 of the 7pin sounds easy .My friend has a lift so it should work out Thanks to all the Escapees for helping me out Jim

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

Anyway I wish ETI would just install disc surge brakes so so so much easier and they stop a lot better then elec drum brakes One of the trailer mags did a comparison and what a difference it makes

Disk brakes work better than drums in general, but there is no available electrically operated disk brake. There have been two approaches to running disk brakes on a small trailer, and due to the characteristics of these systems it would be surprising for any small travel trailer builder to offer either of them.

Surge Brakes
This is what the Lil Snoozy has. It is somewhat common on boat trailers. Rental trailers normally use surge brakes (to avoid a need for the tow vehicle to have a controller), but drums rather than disks.

The brake calipers are hydraulic, just like on a car. Instead of a master cylinder operated by the driver with a brake pedal, the master cylinder is inside a special sliding coupler on the trailer tongue, so as the tug brakes and pushes back on the trailer, the trailer brakes are applied. Because the system can't distinguish between the tug pushing back on the trailer while driving forward and braking, and the tug pushing back on the trailer to move it in reverse, a valve to block brake action in reverse is required.

While this is a valid approach, and travel trailers in Europe also use a surge system (but built differently), most people would not accept this design, because

• it does not allow the driver to manually apply the brakes to control sway, and
• the hydraulic system adds complication.

Electric-over-Hydraulic
This is the system usually used to run disk brakes on large RV trailers, and some (usually large) boat trailers.

The hydraulic brake calipers are the same as for surge disk brakes. The master cylinder is mounted on the trailer's tongue and driven by an electric motor; it is controlled by the same electric signal from a brake controller as an electric drum brake system.

This works well, but is much more expensive than electric drum brakes, and substantially more complex. I've never heard of anyone putting this on a small travel trailer.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

I just talked to Tammy she said it wouldn't be a problem . So I ordered from Amazon with the adapter for checking wires . So run a 10 ga wire under the SUV and attach to number 4 of the 7pin sounds easy .My friend has a lift so it should work out Thanks to all the Escapees for helping me out Jim

The Prodigy RF is way easier to install than the charge wire. Takes all of ten minutes. There are a few videos showing installation- just Google it.

You have some time to figure this out, however with anything there are pros & cons. For the Prodigy RF-

Pros-easy install- no wires to splice, can be moved from different tow vehicles easily.

Cons- have to pair it up & like all bluetooth connections & that sometimes can be tricky. Regardless, to do so you must unplug the trailer connection to the unit first.

The Bargman end on ours became problematic within the first 6 months as the cable started to draw back from the plug end. While I know this can happen to the trailer's plug, we've not seen that yet with our two Escape Trailers. Have included two links for you to look at:

Tekonsha Prodigy RF Wireless Trailer Brake Controller - 1 to 3 Axles - Proportional Tekonsha Brake Controller 90250

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt2w9KSyd1k

[jennykatz]

Thanks for all the reply's . As soon as I get around to it I will be running a num 10 wire with a 30 amp fuse to the rear 7 pin. 12 volt supply . Do I need to have a shutoff relay or switch tapped into my key ignition switch? what if you just let it be live like your brake lights ?

Also does Escape trailers supply the breakaway switch in case trailer comes off the 2in ball ?

[cpaharley2008]

I believe the emergency break away cable with switch is standard issue.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

As soon as I get around to it I will be running a num 10 wire with a 30 amp fuse to the rear 7 pin. 12 volt supply . Do I need to have a shutoff relay or switch tapped into my key ignition switch? what if you just let it be live like your brake lights ?

You don't need to, but most people prefer to have the power to the trailer shut off when the engine is not running, to avoid accidentally running down the tow vehicle's battery when the trailer is left connected while parked. I used a relay controlled by an ignition-switched circuit, but there are also devices which shut off when the voltage from the tow vehicle is low enough to indicate that the engine's charging system is not operating.

[jennykatz]

Brian thanks for all the Help . Since my trailer will be delivered probably first week of Oct. I need to get on this right away . If I want a switch use a relay to attach to the 10ga. wire then run other wires to an ignition run appliance ? to complete the relay right ? Also put in a 30 amp fuse

I also thought of just putting in a 30 amp fuse like on boats and turn off with switching the fuse ? ($49 Blue sea systems 30 amp 7181) Your thought s Jim

[jennykatz]

Well we put in a 10 ga. wire from the battery (switched with also a 30 amp fuse ) to the number 4spot looking at toyota its at the 1-2 position . So we should be good to go . I have a Oct 24th orientation and will ask ETI to mount the prodigy RF then when we pick it up in Chicago area it will be a hopefully simple task of syncing it ? Then off for 10 days of driving back to Florida .BTW The trailer is in production and will leave ETI on Oct 26th .So I will fly back home get mySequoia and drive up to friends house and wait and pick up trailer .Jim