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Old 01-01-2015, 02:49 PM   #41
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There are several reasons why Diesel costs more here, most of which have been mentioned above. The taxes on Diesel are higher as well. If diesel fuel were say, 75 cents cheaper per gallon than gasoline, I think we would seriously consider a diesel truck -- even with the much higher vehicle price.
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:51 PM   #42
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Without knocking any ones choice of engine the one thing I don't understand is why there is such a difference in gas and diesel fuel. Right now diesel is $1.00 more than gas and on a 20 gal. fill, this would bite. That has pretty much been the spread all last year. Gas today by my house is $1.89.
Without taking this into a debate about economic politics, there are good reasons for diesel to be more expensive than it was, and more expensive than gasoline.
  • As I mentioned earlier, diesel is more expensive to produce than in the past.
  • All pricing is driven by demand, and diesel demand has gone up more than gasoline demand. This is due in part to the relatively recent popularity of diesel engines in pickup trucks. The fact that almost no one buys anything made locally also drives commercial transportation demand (truck and train fuel) up.
  • For the same volume, diesel contains more energy than gasoline, which makes it more valuable as a fuel, and so consumers should be willing to pay more for it.
All of these factors are here to stay, so I would not expect the cost premium of diesel fuel over gasoline to end any time in the foreseeable future.

In addition, winter is the high-demand time for diesel and low-demand for gasoline, so the diesel premium will be at its peak for the year.
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Old 01-01-2015, 02:53 PM   #43
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If people switched from gasoline powered vehicles to cheese-powered vehicles, the government would raise taxes on cheese to make up for their losses on gasoline.
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Old 01-01-2015, 03:37 PM   #44
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Hey, if I could get better mileage in a cheese-powered truck, I'd take one. Would it run better on American or Swiss?
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Old 01-01-2015, 03:44 PM   #45
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If people switched from gasoline powered vehicles to cheese-powered vehicles, the government would raise taxes on cheese to make up for their losses on gasoline.

Yes, taxes are applied for various reasons (skirting around the politics here...) and if people will buy something at twice the current price - and it is not staple groceries - it is a clear target for a 100% tax.

Road construction and maintenance consumes a lot of public money, and any motor fuel is heavily taxed. Decades ago propane was a popular fuel here for fleets of small vehicles (taxis, tow trucks...) entirely due to cost, but the cost advantage was largely just the lack of taxes (because propane is not taxed here as a motor fuel). Almost no one uses propane as fuel for road-going vehicles here now.
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Old 01-01-2015, 03:45 PM   #46
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Without knocking any ones choice of engine the one thing I don't understand is why there is such a difference in gas and diesel fuel. Right now diesel is $1.00 more than gas and on a 20 gal. fill, this would bite. That has pretty much been the spread all last year. Gas today by my house is $1.89. Loren
Nice price Loren, keep it that way until we get to Leavenworth on the 9th. Filling up in MN the other day it was 2.25, which is better than the .87 a litre here!

We had two diesels in the 80's and 90's, a Volvo and a VW, but had expensive problems with both. I would still shy away from them especially with the 1.00 higher price per gallon. We are happy with our F150 with the 4.6 towing our 5.0 classic.

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Old 01-01-2015, 03:47 PM   #47
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Hey, if I could get better mileage in a cheese-powered truck, I'd take one. Would it run better on American or Swiss?
He said cheese, not plastic... so I guess the answer is Swiss.


Real made-in-the-USA cheese (e.g. Cheddar) would be good, too.
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Old 01-01-2015, 04:03 PM   #48
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Hey, if I could get better mileage in a cheese-powered truck, I'd take one. Would it run better on American or Swiss?
Hi: MarksAlot... Canadian Raw Milk Cheddar packs a lot more wallop to the ounce. Very nippy!!!
How come no one with a diesel talks about the cost of the Urea additive? Alf
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Old 01-01-2015, 04:36 PM   #49
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How come no one with a diesel talks about the cost of the Urea additive?
Refilling the diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) - which is a urea solution - is certainly an annoyance. On the other hand, it is used in such small quantities that I can't see the cost mattering.

The 2015 Ram 1500 owner's manual diesel supplement says that the DEF tank holds 30 litres; that lasts for many thousands of kilometers, so that must be less than one cent per kilometer... unless you have a Mercedes and pay your dealer to supply it and pour it in, in which case maybe you deserve to pay whatever they charge.

What are the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel owners paying for DEF (if they have gone far enough to need a refill)?
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Old 01-01-2015, 08:34 PM   #50
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A tank of DEF will last about 5,000 miles and the first year of service is included. It's even sold at Walmart and not that expensive. The DEF tank is filled when the truck is serviced at the dealer. No major cost and it helps the environment.
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Old 01-01-2015, 08:40 PM   #51
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Who cares really? If you purchase a diesel tug or something that runs regular gas/fuel. If you want to pay MY fuel bill, I'll purchase what you think I should own. In the meantime, it's my charge card and bills at the dealership... and breakdowns out in the pucker brush.

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Old 01-01-2015, 08:46 PM   #52
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Hi: MarksAlot... Canadian Raw Milk Cheddar packs a lot more wallop to the ounce. Very nippy!!! Alf
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Was born and raised (not my choice of birth locations , but a good upbringing. Wanted to be born in CA, but my mom wouldn't listen) and I love cheese. Canadian cheese too.
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Old 01-01-2015, 09:17 PM   #53
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A tank of DEF will last about 5,000 miles and the first year of service is included. It's even sold at Walmart and not that expensive. The DEF tank is filled when the truck is serviced at the dealer.
Good point - the diesel supplement to the owner's manual directs the owner to top up the DEF at 10,00 mile / 16,000 km intervals which would line up with every second oil change service, so ideally the dealership would put it in for just the (minimal) cost of the DEF. Even if the dealership doesn't do it at a reasonable cost, it's no problem for the owner to do it: it appears that on Ram trucks (both the 1500 and the Cummin-equipped 2500/3500) there's just an extra filler cap for DEF beside the regular one for fuel.

I noticed the DEF at Walmart: it looks like about US$6/USgal. Walmart Canada doesn't list DEF on their website, but Canadian Tire lists it at C$2.11/L

The Ram (or VM Motori / Fiat) approach to DEF seems quite practical and reasonable.
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Old 01-01-2015, 09:22 PM   #54
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Who cares really? If you purchase a diesel tug or something that runs regular gas/fuel. If you want to pay MY fuel bill, I'll purchase what you think I should own. In the meantime, it's my charge card and bills at the dealership... and breakdowns out in the pucker brush.
My guess is that everyone asking about the cost of fuel and other issues of vehicle operation cares, or they wouldn't be asking.

Of course, different people care about different things... some obviously care whether their own tug runs on diesel or gasoline, perhaps because they are paying their own bills. Some apparently don't care, for their own reasons.
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Old 01-01-2015, 11:46 PM   #55
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Whatever the tow vehicle you have, and what fuel it uses, and what fuel mileage you get, is sure better than staying at a hotel, or motel when traveling. Camping is one of the best traveling options out there anywhere in the world. Even a Yugo tow vehicle is better than a 5 star hotel in my book.

And in my unbiased opinion, the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel rocks.

(Sent from a CA campsite)
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Old 01-02-2015, 06:43 AM   #56
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The only thing we can be certain of is what a vehicle costs to purchase. Beyond that, the big three... fuel expense, maintenance expenses and the quality of the build of a particular vehicle are unknown. If we had a crystal ball and could see what those costs would be in the future, that might help determine which type of vehicle to buy. Gas has gone waaay down lately, but that may flip with diesel in the future. Then, there you go...
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Old 01-02-2015, 08:49 AM   #57
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There isn't much in common between a light-duty diesel in a car or Ram 1500 and the commercial-duty diesel in a heavy truck, so I wouldn't count on any truck stop to be able to fix the Ram EcoDiesel any more than I would expect a Ford dealer to to be able to fix a Chevy. In both cases the operating principles are the same and a decent mechanic can figure out any brand, but the ability to efficiently fix is dependent on detailed knowledge (the online manuals), some special tools, and specific parts. The days of mechanical injection pumps looking much alike in a Mercedes or in a big truck are long gone.
I read an interesting article about diesel engines designed for passenger vehicles and the ones designed for commercial use . The design criteria is totally different. .The article lead one to believe that the small passenger diesel engines are designed for the lifespan of consumer vehicles that are not constantly operated under full load.and not designed for commercial use . It appears that both the gas and diesel engines used in many passenger vehicles are designed as allways to last their warranty period.
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Old 01-02-2015, 08:59 AM   #58
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Whatever the tow vehicle you have, and what fuel it uses, and what fuel mileage you get, is sure better than staying at a hotel, or motel when traveling. Camping is one of the best traveling options out there anywhere in the world. Even a Yugo tow vehicle is better than a 5 star hotel in my book.

And in my unbiased opinion, the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel rocks.

(Sent from a CA campsite)
Hi: MarksAlot... What I expect is that no matter what Escape trailer you have... it will out last what ever Tug you have!!! Unless of course you succumb to the dreaded "Fiberglass Flu" and/or "Twofootitis"!!! Alf
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:09 PM   #59
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Excellent point Escape Artist. I'm sure my 19 will outlast my worn-out ass. My truck I'm sure will also. Fiberglass flu im sure is contagious, but I think I got immunized in Canada, so I should be set.

With all the vehicles I've owned, trucks, cars and motorcycles, I've found one constant. Whatever you own, if you take care of your vehicle, it - the vast majority of times - will take care of you. May even help to talk nice to your tug.

Your tug is your vehicle to adventure and gives you the ability to get out there and live life to its fullest. Like any relationship, take good care of your vehicicular significant other.
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:21 PM   #60
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Whatever the tow vehicle you have, and what fuel it uses, and what fuel mileage you get, is sure better than staying at a hotel, or motel when traveling. Camping is one of the best traveling options out there anywhere in the world. Even a Yugo tow vehicle is better than a 5 star hotel in my book.

And in my unbiased opinion, the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel rocks.

(Sent from a CA campsite)
In this mornings paper. "wholesale shipments of travel trailers were at some of the highest levels in decades, according to the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association." Loren
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